Talk:Cruces

"Dr (an honorific? Did Mr Downey become Dr Downey on his elevation, and later become Lord Downey?)"

Not necessarily; we know from Men at Arms that the Guild School has a postgraduate course and therefore presumably confers advanced degrees. As for Downey, it is (or used to be) standard in Britain for a peer to use his title in preference to any military or academic rank; of course nothing in the text indicates whether Downey has an MD (Mortis Doctor) or not.Solicitr 17:29, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Previous Masters of Assassins have been Doctors, like Follett; probably such a leading Assassin will have an "MD", or acquire an honorary one quickly. The "Lord" is another matter. I suspect the title is parallel to Vimes's Dukedom, a significant perk to keep him alongside mainstream society. Previous Masters might have been hereditary Lords like Selachii, but probably no Patrician ever elevated an Assassin before. Perhaps Winder should have, but no. --Old Dickens 00:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

How do we know that Downey didn't simply inherit his title? His louche bullying in Night Watch seems to reflect the behavior of a young toff, and the Guild is where all the "best" families send their brighter sons. Solicitr 14:05, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

We don't, but there aren't any other Downeys or mention of family history as for Selachi, de Worde, et al. --Old Dickens 17:26, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

There's a line in Jingo when Vimes is challenged by Rust as to the status of his knighthood. Vimes' reply is "There's a good few lordships in this city created by the Patricians. Your friend Lord Downey, for one. You were saying?" That suggests Downey's title was given to him by Vetinari; it could also mean that a previous Patrician made one of Downey's ancestors a lord though. TC01 19:54, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Makes sense- after all the Patricians have been in charge for 300 years, and most contemporary British peerages aren't that old.Solicitr 21:02, 22 April 2010 (UTC)