Osiris: 1 revision: Talk Namespace

2012-12-26T03:17:04Z

1 revision: Talk Namespace

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Old Dickens at 03:43, 26 February 2012

2012-02-26T03:43:10Z

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Stronginthearm is such a generic dwarf name, I don't think we should put only the watch officer in there. It's for me the equivalent of the english "Smith" , and we see or hear about many Stronginthearm in the novels (I think the first one is in ''Guards! Guards!'' but i can be wrong, it's in my french version and I don't have the English one at hand). And Burley & '''Stronginthearm''' -> '''Smith''' & wesson seems a nice annotation to me (didn't check the APF on this, and I don't remember what they put in about it). --[[User:Silaor|Silaor]] 17:03, 4 November 2005 (CET)
:You're very right. I think I'll try to turn it into a disambiguation page. -- Vsl
:A few things I am uncertain about, if anyone remembers some definite information about them, please fix or add to the articles:
::Abba Stronginthearm, according to Discworld Companion, is the dwarf that Carrot enlisted in [[Book:Men at Arms|Men at Arms]]. Is Abba also the dwarf that's the dwarf sergeant in [[Book:The Fifth Elephant|The Fifth Elephant]] (knocked unconscious by an angry clamped troll) and killed by Carcer in [[Book:Night Watch|Night Watch]]?
::[[Book:Feet of Clay|Feet of Clay]] describes a human, formerly Mr. Smith, who changed his name to Stronginthearm because people think that dwarfs make better products. Is this Mr. Stronginthearm nee Smith the Mr. Stronginthearm of the weapon-manufacturing company Burleigh & Stronginthearm?
:Any other Stronginthearms that can be remembered are, of course, welcome to be added to this disambig page. --[[User:Vsl|Vsl]]
:: If I remember correctly, the Stronginthearm in B&S is a dwarf, while the Burleigh is human (can't remember where the hell I read that though). I don't remember who the 'false' Stronginthearm is. Am I not helpful ? ;) --[[User:Silaor|Silaor]] 02:10, 5 November 2005 (CET)
::Thanks - I looked up Smith-Stronginthearm, he's the boss of a workshop in Five-and-Seven Yard, makes Vimes' special shaving mirror (reflects more of the surrounding, so he can see assassins), Vimes thinks he's a dwarf. I suppose B&S doesn't make mirrors so it's a different Stronginthearm who's in B&S. I'll put Smith-Stronginthearm as another entry.

== related ==

Are all these Dwarfs related? Or is it just coincedence? --[[User:ArchchancellorJoe|ArchchancellorJoe]] 13:43, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:Just a coincidence. Stronginthearm is a very common dwarf name, to the extent that at one point a human changes his last name to Stronginthearm to give the impression that his metal goods are dwarf-made. [[User:Doctor Whiteface|Doctor Whiteface]] 14:42, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

== "Stronginthearm" a Hamlet allusion ==

I'm all but certain that Sir Terry's use of the name "Stronginthearm", which seems to lack any kind of Scandinavian analogue, references the oddest name in Shakespeare - that of Hamlet's Fortinbras (French (!) for "strong in the arms"), a Norwegian crown prince who serves to develop certain of Hamlet's major plot points and speaks the play's final lines. As such, Fortinbras is definitely authentically Scandinavian, and, shorn of the comically inappropriate language in which it is rendered, his surname certainly does ring Dwarfish and true!

I was thinking of amending this article with something like the following:

"While the name "Stronginthearm" certainly commands some impressive Dwarfish heft, it appears to lack Scandinavians antecedents altogether - but does it really? In order to quite dispel all doubts as to the name's authentically Norse provenance, recall that {{wp|Hamlet|Hamlet}}'s warmongering Norwegian crown prince, who catalyzes certain plot points and delivers the play's final lines, bears the hilariously inapropos name Fortinbras (French for "strong in the arms")!

Thoughts? Bit reluctant to simply edit L-space offhand, especially given that I just created my account here, so I figured I'd attempt to collect some input first. -[[User:Sator|Sator]]
:Of course it lacks Scandinavian antecedents: Discworld lacks a Scandinavia. The point makes a better annotation than most, though. [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 02:50, 26 February 2012 (CET)

::Oh, certainly! I fear I argued my point much too thinly in that regard. I'm definitely not attempting to suggest that a Discworld dwarf's surname need have some sort of Scandinavian counterpart before it can be considered "authentically dwarfish"! It's merely that dwarf lore originates with and is very frequently derived from Germanic and Norse sources - Tolkien's dwarves, which are obviously not totally divorced from Sir Terry's dwarfs, are heavily inspired by Norse mythology's concept of the dwarf. (The same goes for, say, D&D dwarves, which also draw on Tolkien and thereby on Norse lore [as well as, in quite a few cases, just on Norse mythology outright], and to which Discworld dwarf names like "Thunderaxe" owe a clear debt.)

::As such, I think it's not completely unreasonable to look for some kind of Scandinavian background, be it ever so vague, to the average Discworld dwarf name! Factor Sir Terry's background of using dwarf names to allude (cf. {{wp|Johannes_Gutenberg|Gunilla Goodmountain}}) into the mix, as well as his terrific knowledge of Shakespeare (very likely including Shakespeare's notorious geographical blind spot) and the circumstances surrounding Fortinbras' character in Hamlet, and I think one has a decent case to make. Plus, there's just the fact that "Stronginthearm" in its a wee bit less inconsistent English form does make for a damn good anvil-thwacking Dwarf name - perhaps Sir Terry thought it'd be a shame to waste it! -[[User:Sator|Sator]]
:Too bad that [[User:AgProv|AgProv]]'s on hiatus. He loves to point out the multiple sources of Discworld references and gags. A little Shakespeare, a little Tolkien, a dash of the sagas; shake well and serve neat, in small glasses. I still maintain it's annotation. [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 04:43, 26 February 2012 (CET)

Talk:Stronginthearm - Revision history

Osiris: 1 revision: Talk Namespace

Old Dickens at 03:43, 26 February 2012