Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki - User contributions [en]

Amber Petty

2021-10-20T13:48:02Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Amber Petty to Amber Petty on Wheels!

{{Character Data
|title= Amber Petty
|photo=Blank.jpg|
|name= Amber (née Petty)
|age= 14
|race= [[Humans|Human]]
|occupation=
|appearance=
|residence= Petty residence, The Chalk
|death=
|parents= [[Seth Petty]] (father) [[Molly Petty]] (mother)
|relatives=
|children=
|marital status= Married to William
|books= {{ISWM}}
|cameos=
}}

'''Amber''' (née Petty) is a thirteen year old girl when first encountered. Tragically, this debut sees her the victim of a brutal physical assault by her own, drunken father - it has not only left her unconscious, but she has also miscarried her unborn child.

[[Tiffany Aching]] takes charge, saving her drunken brute of a [[Seth Petty|father]] from a lynch mob. Tiffany then organises round-the-clock nursing care of a unique sort - Amber is adopted by the [[Pictsies|Nac Mac Feegles]], where the [[Kelda]], [[Jeannie]], performs the deep rite of the [[Soothings]] to restore her body and soul. The dead baby is buried alongside Mrs [[Snapperly]], in the place of remembrance Tiffany has established near the village.

It soon becomes noticeable that the neglected child, thought simple by the rest of the village, is in her own way a born witch, whose specialised talent goes further and deeper than Tiffany's. She is revealed to be a master of languages - she commands chickens around a yard, but more importantly picks up the [[Pictsie]] tongue (Amber even understands some of the Soothings).

Tiffany arranges for [[Roland|the new Baron]] to provide Amber a dowry, allowing her tailor boyfriend William to buy his indenture to a master craftsman. One year later (aged fourteen) Amber has married William, and is training under the Kelda.

[[Category:Discworld characters|Petty,Amber]]
[[Category:Tiffany Series characters|Petty,Amber]]
[[Category:Human characters|Petty,Amber]]
[[de:Amber Micker]]

Podcasts

2021-10-20T13:47:46Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Podcasts to Podcasts on Wheels!

'''Podcasts''' are episodic audio programs distributed digitally, usually via an [[wikipedia:RSS|RSS feed]]. Most people listen to them through "podcatcher" software, and there are several directories which catalogue active podcasts.

The first Terry Pratchett-related podcast was the no longer active ''The Pratchett Podcast'' in 2011. Since Terry's death, and particularly in the last few years, several shows have appeared where the hosts read and comment on the Discworld books, usually in chronological order. This is an adaptation of the popular "TV recap" podcast format. Such podcasts are sometimes described as "fancasts".

== Active Podcasts ==
Listed in chronological order of release.

=== ''Radio Morpork'' ===
Official site: [https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/ radiomorpork.wordpress.com] 
Launched August 2015; episodes (usually) released monthly.

Irish hosts Colm and Steve read each Discworld book in order, and create rankings.

=== ''Pratchat'' ===
Official site: [https://pratchatpodcast.com pratchatpodcast.com] 
Launched November 2017, released on the 7Ath of each month.

Australian hosts Elizabeth Flux (writer) and Ben McKenzie (comedian) read and discuss every Pratchett book (not just the Discworld), each with a special guest. Is not following strict chronological order. Also has a supporter only bonus podcast, ''Ook Club''.

=== ''The Death of Podcasts'' ===
Official site: [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts aalgarcom] 
Launched November 2018; released monthly, usually on the 15th or 16th.

Hosted by married American couple Amanda Smith and Ron “AAlgar” Watt. Describes itself as "a comprehensive review of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series." [https://deathofpodcasts.tumblr.com Also on Tumblr.]

=== ''Wyrd Sisters'' ===
Official site: [https://wyrdsisters.podbean.com wyrdsisters.podbean.com] 
Launched January 2019, released on the 28th of each month.

A monthly Discworld re-read podcast, hosted by Americans Dani, Manning and Liz. [https://wyrdsisterspodcast.tumblr.com/ Also has a Tumblr.]

=== ''Tales From the Drum'' ===
Official site: [https://mindkindle.net/ mindkindle.net] 
Launched April 2019; released weekly.

A roughly weekly Discworld discussion podcast. Hosted by "the Medieval Gnome", an American fantasy fan, who describes this podcast as "a portal between that fantasy world called the Discworld and [[Roundworld]], what we call reality". Now also featuring extra "Pratchips" - 3-minute mini episodes that give a description of a single character, place or concept from a book. Has changed names several times - it was originally called ''The Discworld Portal'' until September 2020, then briefly ''Ponder's Wizardly Portal'' before ''The Witches and Wizard's Portal'' until October 2021, when it adopted the current name.

=== ''The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret'' ===
Official site: [https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/category/episode/ thetruthshallmakeyefret.com] 
Launched November 2019; released weekly.

A weekly Discworld podcast. Hosts Joanna Hagan-Young and Francine Carrel read, recap and discuss every Discworld book, in chronological order. Three episodes for each book with a week off in between (often filled with recaps/discussions of related media).

=== ''Desert Island Discworld'' ===
Official site: [https://www.desertislanddiscworld.com desertislanddiscworld.com] 
Launched November 2019; released weekly in seasons of six episodes.

A Discworld interview podcast. Host Al Kennedy interviews a variety of guests about their favourite Discworld books.

=== ''The Compleat Discography'' ===
Official site: [https://www.compleatdiscography.page/ compleatdiscography.page] 
Launched January 2020; released fortnightly, at least at launch.

“Four nerds” do a book club style read-through of the Discworld novels and related works, in publication order. Occasionally special guests; also intend to cover ''[[TV and Film:The Watch|The Watch]]''.

=== ''Who Watches the Watch'' ===
Official site: [https://who-watches-the-watch.pinecast.co/ pinecast.co] 
Launched May 2020; released weekly, with 2-3 episodes per book discussed (so far).

An international collection of Terry Pratchett fans - Charlotte, Lucy, Janos and George - began to re-read the Watch novels in anticipation of ''[[TV & Film:The Watch|The Watch]]'', planning to compare the two versions. Due to events, they instead pivoted to reading other Discworld books in order of release, with two or three weekly episodes per book and lots of digressions. Self-styled 'bad boys' of Discworld podcasting.
They have now spun-off a separate podcast, ''Immortal Incantations: Heartspell'', which started as a look into self-published fiction on Amazon and morphed into them trying to write and publish their own young adult novel.

=== ''The Disc-Course'' ===
Official site: [https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course acast.com] 
Launched July 2020; released fortnightly in seasons of roughly 20 episodes, with 2-3 episodes per book discussed (so far).

American and English Discworld fans, Holly and Julie, discuss the series with two new readers, Americans Mark and Jess. Reading the books in order.

=== ''Disc Coverers'' ===
Official site: [https://anchor.fm/discpod anchor.fm] 
Launched November 2020; released roughly monthly, with 1-2 episodes per book.

Another in-order Discworld novel podcast, "reading, reviewing and objectively ranking all 41 Discworld novels, chronologically". Hosted by four American trans-femmes - Iris, Grace, June and Bulina - with various levels of familiarity with the books.

=== ''Pterry Ptalk'' ===
Official site: [https://turtlemoves.podbean.com podbean.com] 
Re-launched in February 2021; original version launched c.2008 and released sporadically until January 2015

A re-launch of ''The Turtle Moves'' using the old RSS feed, though the original episodes are no longer available. A solo podcast hosted by Alex Gilmour, and possibly the earliest Discworld podcast in its original form, it's now called "Pterry Ptalk". There's a Tumblr page at [https://turtlemoves.tumblr.com turtlemoves.tumblr.com].

=== ''Unseen Academicals'' ===
Official site: [https://unseenacademicals.sounder.fm sounder.fm] 
Launched March 2021; released monthly

Two Australian academics, Josh and Alice, analyse the Discworld books from an academic perspective, beginning with ''Unseen Academicals''.

=== ''Ook!'' ===
Official site: [https://anchor.fm/ookpod anchor.fm] 
Launched April 2021; planned fortnightly release

Young Australians Kayleigh Love and River Lewis read one Discworld book every episode and discuss it. Just one episode released so far, but it's still early days.

=== ''Nanny Ogg's Book Club'' ===
Official site: [https://nannyoggsbookclub.fireside.fm/ fireside.fm] 
Launched September 2021;

A read-through of all 41 Discworld books - though ''not'' in publication order - with American Tessa (of the ''Monkey Off My Backlog'' podcast) and Irish Nigel (of ''Hyperfixations'' and other podcasts).

== Inactive Podcasts ==
=== ''The Pratchett Podcast'' ===
Launched October 2011; released monthly or bi-monthly for 61 episodes through to October 2018.

A sometimes monthly news, discussion and review podcast, mostly about the Discworld. Hosted by Graeme Sheridan and sometimes Rhys Parton. [https://www.talkshoe.com/show/the-pratchett-podcast Most recent thirty episodes available here]; the [https://thepratchettpodcast.wordpress.com first fifteen episodes here].

=== ''Ankh-Morpork Public Radio'' ===
Official site: [https://shoutengine.com/AnkhMorporkPublicRadio/ shoutengine.com] 
Launched in September 2016, and released monthly to November 2016.

A Discworld re-read podcast hosted by Discworld newcomer Trevor and long time Pratchett fan Jodhi Doyle. Only two episodes appear to have been made (''[[Book:The Colour of Magic|The Colour of Magic]]'' and ''[[Book:The Light Fantastic| The Light Fantastic]]'').

=== ''The Turtle Moves'' ===
See ''Pterry Ptalk'' above.

=== ''And he said to me'' ===
Official site: none, but it appears to be on most podcast platforms. 
Launched December 2019, released sporadically

Artist and author Bernard Pearson, longtime friend of Terry's and owner of the Discworld Emporium, shares stories about Pratchett in conversation with his other friends, including Rob Wilkins. Released two episodes but hasn't been active since April 2020.

== Read-through index ==
A handy list of links to episodes from each of the main active read-though podcasts. To keep this table a reasonable size, it only includes podcasts who have read at least five books. (It's also a work in progress! If you're keen to add to it, see the suggested conventions below.)

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ Discworld read-through podcasts - episodes index
|-
! # !! Book !! ''Radio Morpork'' !! ''Pratchat'' !! ''The Death of Podcasts'' !! ''Wyrd Sisters'' !! ''The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret'' !! ''The Compleat Discography'' !! ''Who Watches the Watch'' !! ''The Disc-Course'' !! ''Disc Coverers'' !! ''Unseen Academicals''
|-
| 1 || {{COM}} ([[Colin Smythe]], 1983) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2015/08/10/the-colour-of-magic-pungeons-and-dragons/ Pungeons and Dragons]" (August 10, 2015) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2018/12/08/episode-14-city-state-lampoons-disc-wide-vacation City-State Lampoon's Disc-Wide Vacation]" (December 8, 2018) || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.p_D9SK7uaUNX4R Episode 1] (November 14, 2018) || [https://wyrdsisters.podbean.com/e/wyrd-sisters-the-color-of-magic/ WSP 01] (January 28, 2019) || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2019/11/04/e01-red-lorry-yellow-lorry-zlorf-flannelfoot-2/ Red Lorry, Yellow Lorry, Zlorf Flannelfoot]" (November 4, 2019) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2019/11/11/e02-tentacles-suddenly-2/ Tentacles, Suddenly]" (November 11, 2019) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2019/11/18/e03-purring-jellyfish-2/ Purring Jellyfish] (November 18, 2019) || "[https://www.compleatdiscography.page/episodes/the-colour-of-magic The Colour of Magic]" (January 14, 2020) || 1. "[https://who-watches-the-watch.pinecast.co/episode/9800bfecb50f4eed/oppa-rincewind-style-the-colour-of-magic-pt-1- Oppa Rincewind Style]" (June 2, 2020) 2. "[http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/whowatchesthewatch/~3/tUanp9ekPiw/with-or-without-you-rinceflower-amv-the-colour-of-magic-pt-2- With or Without You Rinceflower AMV]" (June 9, 2020) || 1. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/hierarchy-of-tourists Hierarchy of Tourists]" (July 1, 2020) 2. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/episode-2-bel-shamrockshake Bel-Shamrockshake]" (July 15, 2020) 3. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/episode-3-imagine-dragons Imagine Dragons]" (July 29, 2020) 4. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/episode-4-no-one-will-ever-hear-this No One Will Ever Hear This]" (August 12, 2020) || [https://anchor.fm/discpod/episodes/01-The-Colour-Of-Magic-en3kgr Episode 1] (November 29, 2020) ||
|-
| 2 || {{TLF}} (Colin Smythe, 1986) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2015/08/18/the-light-fantastic-first-and-last-among-sequels/ First (And Last) Among Sequels]" (August 18, 2015) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2021/06/08/pratchat44-cosmic-turtle-soup/ Cosmic Turtle Soup]" (June 8, 2021) || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.p_jkHRviBRNXtT Episode 2] (December 15, 2018) || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2019/12/01/e04-exposition-and-pineapple-2/ Exposition and Pineapple]" (December 1, 2019) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2019/12/09/e05-no-the-oven-blew-up-2/ No, the Oven Blew Up]" (December 9, 2019) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2019/12/16/e06-lets-discuss-some-sins-2/ Let's Discuss Some Sins!]" (December 16, 2019)|| TBA || TBA || TBA || TBA ||
|-
| 3 || {{ER}} ([[Gollancz]], Colin Smythe, 1987) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2015/09/06/equal-rites-a-dungeon-dimension-of-ones-own/ A Dungeon Dimension of One's Own]" (September 6, 2015) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2019/11/08/episode-25-eskist-attitudes/ Eskist Attitudes]" (November 8, 2019) || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.p_NnPENHLVNWPa Episode 3] (January 15, 2019) || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/01/06/e07-my-knee-doesnt-have-lungs-2/ My Knee Doesn't Have Lungs]" (January 6, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/01/13/e08-haitches-hon-heverything-2/ Haitches Hon Heverything]" (January 13, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/01/20/e09-crumbs-all-up-in-there-2/ Crumbs All Up In There]" (January 20, 2020)|| TBA || TBA || TBA || TBA || [https://unseenacademicals.sounder.fm/episode/equalrites?page=2 Episode 2] (April 4, 2021)
|-
| 4 || {{M}} (Gollancz, Colin Smythe, 1987) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2015/09/15/32/ Death is a Family Business]" (September 15, 2015) || "[http://pratchatpodcast.com/2017/12/08/episode-2-murdering-a-curry/ Murdering a Curry]" (December 8, 2017) || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.p_DFu_6FAoNWEs Episode 4] (February 15, 2019) || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/03/09/e14-schrodingers-canape-2/ Schrodingers Canape]" (March 9, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/03/16/e15-state-of-mind-eggs-3/ State of Mind: Eggs]" (March 16, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/03/23/e16-horse-in-my-zen-garden/ Horse in My Zen Garden]" || TBA || TBA || TBA || TBA ||
|-
| 5 || {{S}} (Gollancz, Colin Smythe, 1988) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2015/09/29/sourcery-apocralypse-now/ Apocralypse Now]" (September 29, 2015) || "[http://pratchatpodcast.com/2018/01/08/episode-3-youre-a-wizzard-rincewind/ You're a Wizzard, Rincewind]" (January 8, 2018) || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.p_v5HEZ9HPNV2z Episode 5] (March 15, 2019) || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/04/05/e17-meg-a-lo-man-ia-cal/ Meg-A-Lo-Man-I-A-Cal]" (April 6, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/04/12/e18-what-the-hell-are-stiff-peaks-anyway/ What The Hell Are Stiff Peaks Anyway?]" (April 13, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/04/19/e19-i-dont-want-to-eat-a-human-person/ I Don’t Want To Eat A Human Person]" (April 20, 2020)|| TBA || TBA || TBA || TBA ||
|-
| 6 || {{WS}} (Gollancz, 1988) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2015/10/23/wyrd-sisters-the-lancrastian-play/ The Lancrastian Play]" (October 23, 2015) || "[http://pratchatpodcast.com/2018/02/08/episode-4-enter-three-wytches/ Enter, Three Wytches]" (February 8, 2018) || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.p_WVvDYW1qNVry Episode 6] (April 15, 2019) || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/05/03/e20-bloody-hands/ Bloody Hands]" (May 4, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/05/10/e21-there-must-be-bees/ There Must Be Bees]" (May 11, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/05/17/e22-i-am-the-very-model-of-a-metaphor-from-thespia/ I Am The Very Model Of A Metaphor From Thespia]" (May 18, 2020) || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.p_WVvDYW1qNVry Episode 6] (April 15, 2019) || TBA || 1. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/episode-21-witchery-science-theater-3000 Witchery Science Theater 3000]" (May 19, 2021) 2. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/episode-22-the-huffel-figurine The Huffel Figurine]" (June 2, 2021) 3. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/episode-23-a-26-year-old-mall-goth A 26-Year-Old Mall Goth]" (June 17, 2021) 4. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/episode-24-unrelated-clown-mugging Unrelated Clown Mugging]" (July 1, 2021) 5. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/episode-25-timothee-charlemagne Timothee Charlemagne]" (July 14, 2021) 6. "[https://shows.acast.com/the-disc-course/episodes/episode-26-grannys-final-smash Granny's Final Smash]" (July 29, 2021) || TBA || [https://unseenacademicals.sounder.fm/episode/wyrd-sisters?page=2 Episode 3] (May 1, 2021)
|-
| 7 || {{P}} (Gollancz, 1989) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2015/11/08/pyramids-an-assassins-creed/ An Assassin's Creed]" (November 8, 2015) || "[http://pratchatpodcast.com/2018/03/08/episode-5-ten-points-to-viper-house/ Ten Points to Viper House]" (March 8, 2018) || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.p_9R_raLuhNVjP Episode 7] (May 15, 2019) || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/06/07/e23-not-for-internal-use/ Not For Internal Use]" (June 8, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/06/14/e24-that-wont-keep-my-pyramids-flaring/ That Won’t Keep My Pyramids Flaring]" (June 15, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/06/21/e25-allegory-and-this-time-i-mean-it/ Allegory, and This Time I Mean It]" (June 22, 2020)|| TBA || TBA || || TBA ||
|-
| 8 || {{G!G!}} (Gollancz, 1989) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2016/02/10/guards-guards/ Enter the Dragon (and the Coppers)]" (February 10, 2016) || "[http://pratchatpodcast.com/2018/06/08/episode-7a-the-curious-incident-of-the-dragon-and-the-night-watch/ The Curious Incident of the Dragon and the Night Watch]" (June 8, 2018) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/07/05/e26-the-flamey-flame/ The Flamey Flame]" (July 6, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/07/12/e27-coming-out-with-a-dragon-under-his-arm/ Coming Out With A Dragon Under His Arm]" (July 13, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/07/19/e28-low-expectangents/ Low Expectangents]" (July 20, 2020) || TBA || TBA || || [https://anchor.fm/discpod/episodes/08-Guards--Guards-e1772ge Episode 8] (September 11, 2021) ||
|-
| 9 || {{E}} (Gollancz, 1990) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/eric-faustian-hack/ Faustian Hack]" (June 7, 2017) || "[http://pratchatpodcast.com/2018/05/08/episode-7-all-the-fingle-ladies/ All the Fingle Ladies]" (May 8, 2018) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/09/06/e29-corporate-nonsense-demon/ Corporate Nonsense Demon]" (September 7, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/09/13/e30-the-moustaches-we-made-along-the-way/ The Moustaches We Made Along The Way]" (September 14, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/09/20/e31-not-a-sandwich-but/ Not a Sandwich, But]" (September 21, 2020) || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 10 || {{MP}} (Gollancz, 1990) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/07/12/moving-pictures-gone-with-de-syn/ Gone with De Syn]" (July 12, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2018/08/08/episode-10-were-gonna-need-a-bigger-broomstick/ We're Gonna Need a Bigger Broomstick]" (August 8, 2018) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/10/04/e32-waning-lyrical/ Waning Lyrical]" (October 5, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/10/11/e33-a-well-hatted-man/ A Well Hatted Man]" (October 12, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/10/18/e34-classic-cinematic-climax/ Classic Cinematic Climax]" (October 19, 2020) || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 11 || {{RM}} (Gollancz, 1991) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/07/25/reaper-man-death-comes-to-life/ Death Comes to Life]" (July 25, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2018/09/08/episode-11-at-bills-door/ At Bill's Door]" (September 8, 2018) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/11/02/e35-come-into-a-bit-of-snowglobe/ Come Into a Bit of Snowglobe]" (November 2, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/11/09/e36-semi-detached-wolf/ Semi-Detached Wolf]" (November 9, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/11/16/37-reaper-man-pt-3-yes/ YES]" (November 16, 2020) || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 12 || {{WA}} (Gollancz, 1991) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/08/10/witches-abroad-foreign-vacations-fairytale-vocations/ Foreign Vacations & Fairytale Vocations]" (August 10, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2018/10/08/episode-12-brooms-boats-and-pumpkinmobiles/ Brooms, Boats and Pumpkinmobiles]" (October 8, 2018) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/12/07/witches-abroad-pt-1-with-your-boots-on/ With Your Boots On]" (December 7, 2020) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/12/14/39-witches-abroad-pt-2-inverted-zombie/ Inverted Zombie]" (December 14, 2020) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2020/12/21/40-witches-abroad-pt-3-existential-crisis-fridays/ Existential Crisis Fridays]" (December 21, 2020) || TBA || || || || TBA (3 parts)
|-
| 13 || {{SG}} (Gollancz, 1992) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/08/23/small-gods-nobody-expects-the-omnian-quisition/ Nobody Expects the Omnian Quisition]" (August 23, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2019/02/08/episode-16-he-aint-heavy-hes-my-vorbis/ He Ain't Heavy, He's My Vorbis]" (February 8, 2019) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/02/01/43-small-gods-pt-1-extra-melons/ Extra Melons]" (February 1, 2021) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/02/08/small-gods-pt-2-thematic-themes/ Thematic Themes]" (February 8, 2021) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/02/15/45-small-gods-pt-3-wake-up-geeple/ Wake Up, Geeple]" (February 15, 2021) || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 14 || {{LL}} (Gollancz, 1992) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/09/06/lords-and-ladies-the-unfair-folk/ The UnFair Folk]" (September 6, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2019/03/08/episode-17-midsummer-elf-murders/ Midsummer (Elf) Murders]" (March 8, 2019) || TBA || "[https://wyrdsisters.podbean.com/e/lords-and-ladies-wsp14/ WSP14]" (March 28, 2020) || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/03/01/46-lords-and-ladies-pt-1-or-not-to-bee/ Or Not to Bee]" (March 1, 2021) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/03/08/46-lords-and-ladies-pt-2-jodphurs-and-hagstones/ Jodphurs and Hagstones]" (March 8, 2021) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/03/15/48-lords-and-ladies-pt-3-abstract-concept-spiky-chariot/ Abstract Concept, Spiky Chariot]" (March 15, 2021) || TBA || || || || TBA (2 parts)
|-
| 15 || {{MAA}} (Gollancz, 1993) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/09/20/men-at-arms-affirmative-action-heroes/ Affirmative Action Heroes]" (August 20, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2017/11/08/episode-1-boots-theory/ Boots Theory]" (November 8, 2017) "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2021/07/25/pratchatnalc-twice-as-alive/ Twice as Alive]" (July 25, 2021) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/04/11/49-men-at-arms-pt-1-hyperbolic-until-proven-otherwise/ Hyperbolic Until Proven Otherwise]" (April 12, 2021) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/04/18/50-men-at-arms-pt-2-what-happens-when-thing-happens/ What Happens When Thing Happens?]" (April 19, 2021) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/04/25/51-men-at-arms-pt-3-clown-eggs/ Clown Eggs]" (April 26, 2021) || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 16 || {{SM}} (Gollancz, 1994) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/10/18/soul-music-sgt-peppers-lonely-deaths-club-band-with-rocks-in/ Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Death's Club Band (With Rocks In)]" (18 October, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2019/05/08/episode-19-it-dont-mean-a-thing-if-it-aint-got-rocks-in/ It Don’t Mean a Thing if it Ain’t Got Rocks In]" (May 8, 2019) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/06/06/54-soul-music-pt-1-rockstars-or-druids/ Rockstars or Druids]" (June 7, 2021) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/06/13/55-soul-music-pt-2-jail-for-the-co-host/ Jail For The Co-Host]" (June 14, 2021) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/06/20/56-soul-music-pt-3-gyrate-as-you-wish/ Gyrate As You Wish]" (June 21, 2021) || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 17 || {{IT}} (Gollancz, 1994) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/11/15/interesting-times-aurientalism/ Aurientalism]" (November 15, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2019/07/08/episode-21-memoirs-of-agatea/ Memoirs of Agatea]" (July 8, 2019) || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.p_WVvDYW1qNVry Episode 17] (February 15, 2020) || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/07/11/interesting-times-pt-1-blanket-problematic-sticker/ Blanket Problematic Sticker]" (July 12, 2021) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/07/20/58-interesting-times-pt-2-i-was-going-to-but-then-i-didnt/ I Was Going To But Then I Didn’t]" (July 20, 2021) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/07/25/59-interesting-times-pt-3-the-ennui-of-the-barbarian-heroes/ The Ennui of the Barbarian Heroes]" (July 26, 2021) || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 18 || {{M!!!}} (Gollancz, 1995) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/11/29/maskerade-a-fight-at-the-opera/ A Fight at the Opera]" (November 29, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2019/09/08/episode-23-the-music-of-the-nitt/ The Music of the Nitt]" (September 8, 2019) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/09/05/60-maskerade-pt-1-chekhovs-chandelier/ Chekhov's Chandelier]" (September 5, 2021) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/09/12/e61-maskerade-pt-2-as-the-actress-said-to-the-bishop/ As the Actress Said to the Bishop]" (September 12, 2021) 3. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/09/19/e62-maskerade-pt-3-climbing-into-box-8/ Climbing Into Box 8]" (September 20, 2021) || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 19 || {{FOC}} (Gollancz, 1996) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/feet-of-clay-go-ahead-bake-my-clay-punk/ Go Ahead, Bake My Clay, Punk]" (December 13, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2019/10/08/episode-24-arsenic-and-old-clays/ Arsenic and Old Clays]" (October 8, 2019) || TBA || TBA || 1. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/10/03/e63-feet-of-clay-pt-1-i-think-its-the-bones/ I Think It’s The Bones]" (October 4, 2021) 2. "[https://thetruthshallmakeyefret.com/2021/10/10/64-feet-of-clay-pt-2-affable-tyrant/ Affable Tyrant]" (October 10, 2021)|| TBA || || || ||
|-
| 20 || {{H}} (Gollancz, 1996) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2017/12/23/hogfather-the-inner-baby-sitters-club-christmas-special/ The Inner-Baby Sitters Club Christmas Special]" (December 23, 2017) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2019/12/08/episode-26-the-long-dark-mr-teatime-of-the-soul/ The Long, Dark Mr Teatime of the Soul]" (December 8, 2019) || TBA || TBA || || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 21 || {{J}} (Gollancz, 1997) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2018/04/04/jingo-operation-desert-squirm/ Operation Desert Squirm]" (April 4, 2018) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2020/01/08/episode-27-leshp-miserables/ Leshp Miserablés]" (January 8, 2020) || TBA || TBA || || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 22 || {{TLC}} ([[Doubleday]], 1998) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2018/04/18/the-last-continent-the-wizzard-of-oz/ The Wizzard of Oz]" (April 18, 2018) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2020/03/08/episode-29-great-rimward-land/ Great Rimward Land]" (March 8, 2020) || TBA || TBA || || TBA || || || ||
|-
| 23 || {{CJ}} (Doubleday, 1998) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2018/05/09/carpe-jugulum-threes-a-coven-fours-a-crowd/ Three's a Coven, Four's a Crowd]" (May 9, 2018) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2020/10/08/pratchat36-home-alone-but-vampires/ Home Alone, But Vampires]" (October 8, 2020) || TBA || TBA || || || || || ||
|-
| 24 || {{TFE}} (Doubleday, 1999) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2018/05/23/the-fifth-elephant-a-morporkian-werewolf-in-uberwald/ A Morporkian Werewolf in Uberwald]" (May 23, 2018) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2021/02/08/pratchat40-the-king-and-the-hole-of-the-king/ The King and the Hole of the King]" (February 8, 2021) || TBA || TBA || || || || || ||
|-
| 25 || {{TT}} (Doubleday, 2000) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2019/04/23/the-truth-all-the-patricians-men-and-dwarves-and-trolls-and-women/ All the Patrician's Men (and Dwarves and Trolls and Women)]" (April 23, 2019) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2021/04/08/pratchat42-truth-the-printing-press-and-everything/ Truth, the Printing Press and Every -ing]" (April 8, 2021) || TBA || TBA || || || || || ||
|-
| 26 || {{TOT}} (Doubleday, 2001) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2019/05/24/thief-of-time-chocolate-proof-monk/ Chocolate-Proof Monk]" (May 24, 2019) || || TBA || TBA || || || || || ||
|-
| 27 || {{TLH}} (Gollancz, 2001) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2019/06/23/the-last-hero-saga-megadrive/ Saga Megadrive]" (June 23, 2019) || || TBA || TBA || || || || || ||
|-
| 28 || {{TAM}} (Doubleday, 2001) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2019/08/14/the-amazing-maurice-his-educated-rodents-puss-in-cahoots/ Puss in Cahoots]" (August 14, 2019) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2020/07/08/pratchat33-cat-rats-and-two-meddling-kids/ Cat, Rats and Two Meddling Kids]" (July 8, 2020) || TBA || TBA || || || || || ||
|-
| 29 || {{NW}} (Doubleday, 2002) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2019/10/05/night-watch-mid-life-time-crisis/ Mid-Life Time Crisis]" (October 5, 2019) || || TBA || TBA || || || || || ||
|-
| 30 || {{WFM}} (Doubleday, 2003) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2019/12/04/the-wee-free-men-rowdy-roddy-mouse-piper/ Rowdy Roddy Mouse-Piper]" (December 4, 2019) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2020/06/08/pratchat32-meet-the-feegles/ Meet the Feegles]" (June 8, 2020) || TBA || [https://wyrdsisters.podbean.com/e/the-wee-free-men-wsp30/ WSP30] (August 27, 2021) || || || || || ||
|-
| 31 || {{MR}} (Doubleday, 2003) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2020/02/22/monstrous-regiment-ru-polly-olivers-drag-war/ Ru Polly Oliver's Drag War]" (February 22, 2020) || || TBA || || || || || || ||
|-
| 32 || {{HFOS}} (Doubleday, 2004) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2020/03/21/a-hat-full-of-sky-a-portrait-of-the-artist-as-a-young-witch/ A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Witch]" (March 21, 2020) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2021/05/08/pratchat43-big-wee-hag-far-fra-home/ Big Wee Hag: Far Fra' Home]" (May 8, 2021) || TBA || || || || || || ||
|-
| 33 || {{GP}} (Doubleday, 2004) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2020/05/10/going-postal-the-conman-always-rings-twice/ The Conman Always Rings Twice]" (May 10, 2020) || "[https://pratchatpodcast.com/2020/12/08/pratchat38-moisten-to-steal/ Moisten to Steal]" (December 8, 2020) || TBA || || || || || || ||
|-
| 34 || {{T!}} (Doubleday, 2005) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2020/06/09/thud-ace-of-clubs/ Ace of Clubs]" (June 9, 2020) || || TBA || || || || || || ||
|-
| 35 || {{W}} (Doubleday, 2006) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2020/08/10/wintersmith-time-of-the-season-of-the-witch/ Time of the Season of the Witch]" (August 10, 2020) || || TBA || || || || || || ||
|-
| 36 || {{MM}} (Doubleday, 2007) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2020/09/10/making-money-the-financial-times-they-are-a-changin/ The Financial Times, They Are A-Changin]" (September 10, 2020) || || TBA || || || || || || ||
|-
| 37 || {{UA}} (Doubleday, 2009) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2020/10/28/unseen-academicals-balon-dorc/ Balon D'Orc]" (October 28, 2020) || || [https://sites.google.com/view/aalgarcom/content/death-of-podcasts#h.9jt3rdohg9ly Episode 37] (September 15, 2021) || || || || || || || [https://unseenacademicals.sounder.fm/episode/unseenacademicals?page=3 Episode 1] (April 4, 2021)
|-
| 38 || {{ISWM}} (Doubleday, 2010) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2021/01/18/i-shall-wear-midnight-i-have-a-cunning-man/ I Have a Cunning Man]" (January 18, 2021) || || || || || || || || ||
|-
| 39 || {{SN}} (Doubleday, 2011) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2021/03/12/snuff-the-mysterious-affair-of-vimes/ The Mysterious Affair of Vimes]" (March 12, 2021) || || || || || || || || ||
|-
| 40 || {{RS}} (Doubleday, 2013) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2021/04/22/raising-steam-there-aint-no-gettin-offa-this-train-we-on/ There Ain't No Gettin' Offa This Train We On]" (April 22, 2021) || || || || || || || || ||
|-
| 41 || {{TSC}} (Doubleday, 2015) || "[https://radiomorpork.wordpress.com/2021/06/16/the-shepherds-crown-counting-sheep/ Counting Sheep]" (June 16, 2021) || || || || || || || || ||
|}

=== Conventions for the table ===
* A cell in the table should be blank if the podcast has no episodes for that book.
* "TBA" means there is an episode for that book, but it is to be added.
* Multiple episodes for a book should be on separate lines. If the episodes are parts of the discussion of the book, number them; if they are not (e.g. if the book is revisited later), do not use numbers.
* Episode titles should be used for the links, and in quotation marks.
* For brevity, leave book titles out of episode titles. If episodes are named with only the book title, label them with the episode number only. If episodes are named with a numbering system, use that, but without quotation marks.
* Wherever possible, links for episodes should be to the podcast's website or nearest equivalent. Do not link to a specific podcasting platform - e.g. Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify etc.

[[Category:Fandom|Podcasts]]
[[Category:Peripherals|Podcasts]]

Talk:Book:Unseen Academicals/Annotations

2021-10-20T13:47:13Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Talk:Book:Unseen Academicals/Annotations to Talk:Book:Unseen Academicals/Annotations on Wheels!

'''Dedication''':- ''This book is dedicated to Rob Wilkins, who typed most of it and had the good sense to laugh occasionally.''

As various commentators have pointed out, this is perhaps evidence of Terry's Alzheimer's beginning to affect his writing - Terry himself has pointed out that the most obvious evidence of the disease is that his typing skills have declined and he now finds the physical effort of typing to be beyond him. Hence the amanuensis.

Terry's wit and his ability to create a challenging and entertaining plot are certainly not in doubt - {{UA}} works and it can hold its own as part of the canon.

Having said that, some serious continuity errors have crept in which put this at odds with earlier books in the series. The Arch-Chancellor's Hat, for instance, making a reappearance after being destroyed in {{S}}. Ridcully's parentage and upbringing having been arbitrarily changed - from prosperous land-owning gentry brought up in the country outside A-M, (ref. {{MP}}, {{RM}}), the Ridcully brothers have now been reduced in the social ranking to the sons of a well-off City butcher. Yet Mustrum still acts like a rumbustious country squire.

OK, it ''could'' be History Monks, but it felt ''wrong'' to come up against this stuff - the suspicion is that earlier Discworld books would have edited out basic errors like this. And with all respect to Rob Wilkins - as the routine manufacture of the books passes out of Terry's hands, for all the right and benign reasons (whilst still retaining his creativity) , then how much of the error-checking process, that Terry might have done himself in happier days, is going to fail? Terry himself might have paused on the Ridcully thing and reflected that something isn't quite right here. A third party less used to the Discworld has perhaps missed the error?

Ah well. Perhaps I'm ungrateful and asking too much... I should rejoice we still have Terry with us who has said that there are a few novels left in him yet! --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 23:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I p****d and moaned about at some length on my own page. I felt that Mr Wilkins, however talented, was an intervention and a barrier to the direct text communication we've always known. Terry even used to type to fans on a.f.p and answer e-mail, before the volume became ridiculous. He spoke directly to the audience through the keyboard.

A second reading and more consideration show up more strengths, as usual, but the oddities remain. I say "oddities", because there may yet be a method behind them that disqualifies them from "errors".
This book is deep. Weird, flawed, but deep. And weird. ''Change'' seems to be the central theme. The homily "the leopard does not change his shorts" is repeated beyond reason, and there are many examples to refute it. Nutt, Trevor, Juliet, Glenda, football, Ponder Stibbons, Ridcully, Vetinari (I may have missed some) are all changed or changing, although Margolotta probably hasn't changed for two hundred years. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 00:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
:Weird is right, it felt like the book was starting to wrap up the DW series whilst at the same time asking more questions than it answered. I really ''really'' hope I'm wrong with this but could TP be preparing to hand the reins over to someone else? --[[User:Megahurts|Megahurts]] 09:10, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

==(Dis)Continuity==
* Biggest problem I noted was the creation of the new ball, why didn't they just ask Carrot? He said in [[book:Jingo|Jingo]] that he always carried a deflated ball in his pack, and the game matches the one the wizards 'invent'. We know it's earlier too, because the Dean is mentioned, with the crystal ball viewing of the [[Leshp]] fights. [[User:Ktetch|Ktetch]] 23:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
:Now why did no one else notice ''this''? I'd like to propose that the story precedes {{J}}, but that's very difficult in the short space of Carrot's career until then. ''(Insertion from AgProv:- {{UA}} cannot precede {{J}}, as Constable Haddock is a character in {{UA}} - he was not a Watchman at the time of {{J}}, or he'd have joined a suddenly much smaller Watch in sailing for Klatch).'' Of course, the Dean has just left the faculty, placing {{UA}} most recently; another bugger for the serious student. TP has always been friendly to the fans while taunting them mercilessly. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 01:02, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
::I think in this case there's no error: The ball created for 'football' in {{UA}} is clearly for what Americans call 'soccer,' while we can infer from the text of {{J}} that the 'football' that Carrot had in his pack was most likely an actual 'football' instead of a soccer ball. In any case, the football presented in {{UA}} is somewhat ghetto in appearance, and I wouldn't be surprised if the space between {{J}} and {{UA}} saw enough of a decline in the standards of football to actually change the composition of the ball.

::Or Carrot could have just been a bit ahead of the game. [[User:Doctor Whiteface|Doctor Whiteface]] 03:41, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::: Remember that Carrot is a dwarf. And that they had to go to a dwarf to get a proper ball made since vulcanized rubber was a dwarfen invention. Carrot may not have even known it was something new to the city --[[User:Fhh98|Fhh98]] 04:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Nope, it won't wash. "...Captain Carrot was ''bouncing'' an ''inflated pig's bladder''." ({{J}}) You can only bounce an ovoid ball once and then you have to go and pick it up again. Dave Likely's game used a Rugby-shaped ball but I see no evidence of anything but soccer in the matches organised by Carrot years earlier. These involved many street boys, so the game shouldn't have been unknown. The game also appeared to be familiar to both armies in the brief war over Leshp. How do you infer otherwise from the text? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 18:01, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:Who said anything about text. I was going on obviously faulty memory there. [[User:Fhh98|Fhh98]] 19:07, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

[[User:Doctor Whiteface|Doctor Whiteface]], above. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 19:25, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to bring some heresy to this discussion, but perhaps Terry decided to sacrifice continuity to spinning a good yarn? [[User:V|V]] 13:22, 20 December 2010 (CET)

Page 352 (UK hardback) the foonote about master of Music writing down Macarona Unum est...
makes me immediately thing of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macarena_%28song%29 but I don't know the words of that if there is a better match

[[User:AlanD|AlanD]] This is a reference to the now-generic football chant "There's only one <insert your name of choice>"

https://www.whosampled.com/news/2014/07/10/10-songs-that-unexpectedly-became-football-chants/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFAwqfFutMs

With regards to Ridcully's background, should I point out that in the same scene Ponder Stibbons experienced deja vu without the original vu? He may not have been the only one to do so, just the only one to acknowledge it...
: I've just been thinking, who says the country estates belonged to his dad? Just says 'Family'. It could have been his (childless) uncle's, or belonged to his mother's parents. It's not so much a contradiction. Dad a butcher, mother a rich country lady who went to town, saw him, fancied him etc. not all that impossible. [[User:Ktetch|Ktetch]] 04:09, 13 February 2010 (UTC). We know about Ridcully that the explicit reason he was not at the University to be drawn into the Sourceror's war was that he had retired from active wizardry, to look after the family estates deep in the country. This was on behalf of his mother {{MP}}, {{RM}}. So as you say, not incompatible. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 15:20, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

And with regards to the hat, we know it was destroyed in Sourcery, but perhaps Ridcully has found it a good idea to keep alive rumours that he had recovered it after those events had eventuated, to preserve the tradition that all wizards should be united under the Hat's owner...
:Isn't there an explicit reference to Mustrum not wearing the hat since he doesn't like its voice? Is it possible that the Luggage recovered the hat off-scene during the final events of Sourcery? Admittedly it's been a while since I last read it though.--[[User:Megahurts|Megahurts]] 14:58, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

::That comment was made in {{UA}} --[[User:Fhh98|Fhh98]] 15:50, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

:::I know, Ridcully saying that in UA implies that the hat is still extant. --[[User:Megahurts|Megahurts]] 08:09, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
::::Or that he is trying to cover up the destruction, he does say that every archchancellor for the last 1000 years has complained in exactly the same way. So the problematic comments made by the hat are a matter of record and he could be simply attempting to preserve a tradition as previously suggested. UU has some pretty interesting traditions, if people pretend they loose their keys every night then having someone pretend to own a destroyed hat isn't that odd.-- [[Erin B|Erin B]]16:01, 14 June 2011

: In regards to V's mention of ''spinning a good yarn'': I think (worry) that's the case gone wrong. A many things previously canon have been dropped in favour of cheap shots, if I may say so. A minor example just jumped at me upon re-reading lately: In the past books Rincewind's main job (Cruel and Unusual Geography) was more or less described as the bottom of the foodchain, represented by the statement(amongst others) that he wasn't paid any sort of loan, but got his laundry done etc. In UA now we are being told that a 'real wizard' always works without payment. It's a minor thing, but it is another drop in the barrel. (will check which page exactly it was later on)--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 16:01, 28 July 2011 (CEST)

==A possible resolution of continuity errors?==
Terry himself has excused cotinuity glitches in the Discworld cycle by invoking alternate pasts and interference by History Monks.
I have been re-reading {{TLC}} lately and to my shame, a possible resolution for continuity glitches in {{UA}} that I should have seen at the time has (belatedly) fallen into my lap. It is possible to suspect that Terry set up a mechanism for explaining away any messing with, or contradiction of, known facts from previous books. Especially as they relate to the wizards. I don't think TP set this up years before the event with specifically {{UA}} in mind - more as a general insurance policy, if he was thinking of it at all.

To explain. In {{TLC}}, the wizards pass from winter in the city to high summer in the Discworld equivalent of the South Pacific. I'm sure reluctantly: the mission to save the Librarian would have been the most important thing. It is only later on that Ponder Stibbons realises the Faculty has ''also'' been thrown back in time by several thousand years. (Corgi pb, {{TLC}}, pp 1140-153)

Rincewind the Wizzard has also, separately, been thrown back several thousand years, to XXXX. as Scrappy the Trickster-God tells him (corgi pb p96-97):-

''"Something went wrong in the past. Your arrival caused a wrong note. What in? All this ...You could just call it the Song"''

From page 142 onwards, Ponder first has to convince Ridcully and the others that he is right, and then , in the manner of a ''Star Trek'' captain trying to get a thick red-shirted crew member to understand the Prime Directive, goes through all the classic arguments about what happens when you interfere with the past.

These include the classic:- ''the important thing is not to kill your own grandfather'' and ''what I was trying to get across, sir, is that '''anything''' you do in the past changes the future. The tiniest little thing actions can have huge consequences. You might... tread on an ant now and it might entirely prevent somebody else from being born in the future!''

While Ridcully and the rest totally deconstruct Ponder with typical Ankh-Morpork logic, which builds into a summary of the philosophical case ''against'' the idea that actions in the past cause change in the present, it cannot be denied that:-

i) By going back in time the wizards, Rincewind in particular, have already changed the course of time - Scrappy said so.

ii) As for not killing anything while you are there - oh dear. Ridcully has called for the whole of his animal-slaying kit to be sent, right down to and including the amateur taxidermy set. (Corgi pb p65 lists the items in the armoury. The Assassins would have been proud.) And the original Egregious Professor is killed, here in the past, to be replaced with Rincewind - a man who already has such a tortuously convoluted personal timeline that even Death has given up trying to work his nodes out.
Ridcully slays quite a few things for food, the Thunder Lizard is slain, and a lot of bushes are plundered for fruit, samples even being taken back to the future for the attention of the Professor of Extreme Horticulture.

iii) the God of Evolution's personal timeline is changed through interacting with the wizards. What effects might this have several thousand years on - in perhaps the evolution of those lifeforms destined to bring forth Wizards at the appropriate time?

Could this course of events serve to alter history just long enough to erase the War of the Sourceror, so the Arch-Chancellor's Hat never left the University, and Klatch was never governed by Creosote and Abrim? (this is a discontinuity between {{S}} and {{J}} - how do you get from one form of government in Klatch to the rule of the Princes as seen in {{J}}?)

Might it also create a slightly changed Ridcully, who smokes, and who is the son not of a propertied landowner but of a City butcher? And a more assertive Ponder Stibbons, one confident enough to stand between the Dean and Ridcully and say "no" to both...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 15:01, 24 July 2011 (CEST)

:Funny, I just yesterday finished a very short story on history correction around the War of the Sourceror. I never got the Hat controversy: the last page of {{S}} says ''"Silence drifted around the remains of a hat, heavily battered and frayed and charred around the edges, that had been placed with some ceremony in a niche in the wall"'' (apparently of the Library). 
:How do you get from one form of government to another...? Assassination, usually. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 15:45, 24 July 2011 (CEST)
::That hat the Librarian puts in the niche is Rincewind's. He lost it when hopping through the rift to safe Coin.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 16:30, 24 July 2011 (CEST)
:This makes sense since the Librarian seems to be involved, but I still don't know why the extremely magical Archchancellors' hat should be assumed destroyed. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 17:47, 24 July 2011 (CEST)
::Well, how much of your clothes would remain if you'd stand on the very point of impact of an atombombe?--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 18:10, 24 July 2011 (CEST)

:I think not all the stories we hear/read are from the same Trouserleg of Time. So we have the History Monk's messing and a continued drifting from one leg to the other.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 16:33, 24 July 2011 (CEST)

== Terry himself ==

Intervewed in The ''Guardian'', Sat 12th Dec 2009, Terry Pratchett said about {{UA}}:-

''Various factors made it somewhat difficult to write, and like every book I have ever written, I wished I could have given it a fortnight's worth of extra time. But the editor's whistle was about to blow, so i had to take the shot''.

== Flowers for Algernon reference. ==

On pg. 94, just before he "dies", Mr. Nutt says "Do you know, sir, that your situation here is very similar to that described by Vonmausberger in his treatise on his experiments with rats?" to a character ''named'' Algernon who is incidentally also very stupid. This seems to be a reference to the short story [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon Flowers for Algernon]

== '''''Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintainance'''''==

Ref. Robert M. Pirsig's work of popular philosophy, '''''Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintainance'''''. I am getting one of ''those'' intuitions that with regard to Mr Nutt's quest for ''worth'', there will be a lot of Pirsig references, homages and reprises scattered throughout {{UA}}, possibly hidden among all the joke philosophy and quasi-Pythonic philosophers you see on the surface. Just off to get a copy of Pirsig and refresh my memory....--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 09:37, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

== The Ridcully Parentage thing ==

We know Ridcully has family estates. We know his father was a butcher. We know one of his grandfathers was a prize fighter. Could his MOTHER not have been an heiress, who married significantly below herself, been cut off from her family (hence Daddy needing to keep working), and then when Rich Grandpa died, the family got the estates? Just a thought.

== The Moving Pictures thing ==
Bear with me, this is my first edit, but I disagree with there being a continuity error or significant date placement where Glenda references Moving pictures. The older ladies she swaps romance novels with are certainly the type that would have gone to Moving Pictures when they were offered. --[[User:Erin B|Erin B]] 15:49, 14 June 2011

==Who Ate the Pies==
{{wp|William_Foulke_(footballer)|William Henry "Fatty" Foulke}}, Sheffield United keeper; [http://www.easterroad.com/george-foulkes-buffoonery-2/ George Foulkes, Baron Foulkes of Cumnock], Labour politician and Midlothian supporter, each probably unique. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 02:26, 27 July 2011 (CEST)

Correction gladly accepted! The story was on a BBC4 programme last night about pioneering early film-makers who took their cameras to record everyday life in the North of England, including the first filming of professional football games as sports journalism (a shout-out to William de Worde?) I was watching with half an eye until Foulkes appeared, the man-mountain of the Sheffield goal, and then I was absorbed: he was only referred to as Foulkes, although "George" stuck from somewhere as a first name, goodness knows why...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 13:15, 27 July 2011 (CEST)
And of course the fat man on the football pitch is called ''Henry''....

== Kitchen Maid Literature ==

Wasn't this the type of literature parodied by Wodehouse? With lines like "he knew she was only a kitchen maid..." [[User:Marmosetpower|Marmosetpower]] 11:44, 29 September 2011 (CEST)
I think this term combines the general idea of Romance Novels (Mills and Boon style, typified by Barbera Cartland's stuff) with Bodice-Rippers and is an inverted reference to kitchen-sink drama. --[[User:AlanD|AlanD]] ([[User talk:AlanD|talk]]) 15:34, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

== Possible further annotations? ==

About a year back I posted THIS: http://youtu.be/ehKGlT2EW1Q (0:05 to 0:37, obviously)... at the discussion concerning Macarona and his list of titles. Possible reference?--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 06:50, 19 May 2012 (CEST)

== Hunting the Megapode ==

Surely this is a reference to the Hunt of the Mallard at All Souls, Oxford, rather than the to the Hunting of the Wrens?

Book:Unseen Academicals/Annotations

2021-10-20T13:47:13Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Book:Unseen Academicals/Annotations to Book:Unseen Academicals/Annotations on Wheels!

== [[Book:Unseen Academicals|Unseen Academicals]] Annotations ==

General:-

It has been suggested that the opening pages of the book, in which Rudolf Scattering, night-watchman at the Royal Art Museum receives a nasty surprise, is a deliberate parody of Dan Brown's mystery thrillers of the ''Da Vinci Code'' genre.

[[Pedestriana]] - the plucky barefoot Goddess of Football. According to the Guardian, (edition of 30/12/09), in an article on the weird compulsion of men to collect, in this case a man with a desire to own a match programme for ''every'' game ever played by London side Tottenham Hotspur. The newspaper reproduces the front cover of the 1921 F.A. Cup Final programme, which features...guess what... a robed and barefoot Goddess of Football, the winged angel standing bare of foot atop the ball... documentary evidence, hopefully, will follow...[http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jcprogrammes.co.uk/images/1921.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.jcprogrammes.co.uk/Top_Sellers&usg=__CyDPShHA8tx7m4LNmGsFF_d1X00=&h=301&w=200&sz=57&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=Q4vZroN2lUWNFM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=77&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFA%2BCup%2Bfinal,%2B1921,%2Bprogramme%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26cr%3DcountryUK%257CcountryGB%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1]

The name ''Dimwell'' seems close to ''Millwall'', area and football club in London noted for the belligerence of their supporters. House chant:
''Nobody loves us. And we don't care!'' Once combined an away visit to Manchester City with looting jeweller's shops on Wilmslow Road whilst the police were marching them to the ground. Two thousand fans overwhelmed three coppers and in the subsequent Shove, managed to gut a jewellers. See here for discussion:- [http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=121060]

Dimwell, like Millwall for London, is a dockside area that must provide most of Ankh-Morpork's stevedores, dockers and longshoremen. In fact: one of Andy Shanks' associates shares out the bounty at one point - of loose goods purloined while working a casual shift at the docks, unloading an incoming ship.

There are a fair number of "Lord of the Rings" references in "Unseen Academicals." Is [[micromail]] (see reference in article for alternative in sci-fi/fantasy) a reference to Frodo's mithril shirt? A metal called "moonsilver" is cited by Pepe as being a major component of micromail - "moonsilver" is a translation of the elvish "mithril".

A recurring theme throughout the book is Mr Nutt's search for ''worth''. This leads him to many uncomfortable, even dangerous, places, and involves mental and emotional anguish, at one point a near-Death experience.

Later in the book, he has the Margolotta-guided insight that the worth he seeks is not a property of deeds or created things, but an ongoing process of creation.

This echoes the quest of the narrator of Robert M. Pirsig's work of popular philosophy, '''''Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance''''', who undergoes similar travails in search of elusive ''quality'' only to realise it isn't so much a ''thing'' as an ongoing ''process''. {{SM}} apart, there are no motorbikes on the Discworld. Pirsig's character grounds himself via looking after his motorcycle - but Mr Nutt is an accomplished amateur blacksmith who succeeds in re-shoeing the most difficult horse on the Quirm Flyer (horses are as near as the Disc gets, in general?)

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.11)''' '''''Speaking of Glenda's teddy bear, Mr. Wobble. "Traditionally, in the lexicon of pathos, such a bear should have only one eye, but as the result of a childhood error in Glenda's sewing, he has three, and is more enlightened than the average bear."'''''

The picnic basket-stealing cartoon character, Yogi Bear, is frequently described as "smarter than the average bear." It is also a reference to "opening one's third eye", a feature of several spiritual traditions, usually having to do with gaining insight into the workings of the universe. The word "yogi" can also mean a practitioner of some of these traditions.

'''(Corgi paperback, UK, p28)''' '''''Hunting the Megapode''''' The Roundworld equivalent, {{wp|Wren_Day|The Hunting of the Wrens}}, is forgotten almost as totally as the Discworld version. The {{wp|Megapode|megapode}} is a real bird, whose name appropriately enough means "Bigfoot". The Megapode Hunt may also refer to the Oxford tradition of Hunting the Mallard, as suggested in The Culture of Discworld.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p27)''' '''''"in most cases the minutes could be written beforehand"''''' Ponder Stibbons' technique for creating minutes of Faculty meetings is, in purpose and execution, identical to standard British Civil Service policy. (As described in the great satire of government life, '''Yes, Prime Minister''', in which Sir Humphrey Appleby is an adept at predicting in advance how a meeting will work out and can quite safely dictate the minutes in advance.)

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p36)''' '''''"No one could have been neutral when the Dark War had engulfed Far Überwald"'''''. A sideways reference to Tolkien's {{wp|Middle-earth|Middle-earth}}, perhaps, especially in the light of Mr Nutt's [[Orcs|species]] and their perceived role in the Dark War of antiquity. '''''"Alas, when the time came to write down their story, his people hadn't even got a pencil"'''''. Unlike more favoured races who had time and liberty to craft entire ''Red Books of Westmarch'' to get their side of the story out first... the Dark War is referred to on page 58 by Vetinari and on page 60 by Ridcully, where Vetinari likens the playing pieces on the Thud board to the Dark Hordes, in their lack of free will and their having been crafted for a single purpose - to fight. Ridcully reflects on what "the monsters" had been bred to do, and wonders what became of the thousands upon thousands of ''them'' who were bred to fight. Also, re-referencing Middle-earth, Treebeard speculates that Saruman had crossbred Orcs and Men, which he calls "a black evil", to create the {{wp|Uruk-hai|Uruk-hai}}, perfect fighting machines to fight in a war that engulfs a large area of land... Vetinari himself notes that it wasn't Igoring goblins that produced orcs, but using humans, in whom the natural capacity for violence and evil is so much greater. There's also a slight resonance with the original Tolkien orcs which were created when (Middle-earthen) elves were betrayed and corrupted. In neither case are they natural creatures - they have been twisted into these shapes through evil intent. In the Jackson film version of the LOTR, they are even ''more'' "bred": the Uruk-hai are dug from the ground in a grotesque birthing sequence. There is a reference to the spawning of Orcs from the ground earlier in the book, where Nutt is contemplating the tallow vats, permanently bubbling and seething, (as per the film) as a place where he finds himself feeling safe and peaceful in an odd and nursery-like way. ''People in the streets had jeered to him that he'd been made in a vat. Although Brother Oats had told him that this was silly, the gently bubbling tallow had called to him. He felt at peace here.'' ('''p33''')

It is also worth noting that the phrase '''''"No one could have been neutral..."''''' has associations when one ponders the evolution of the fantasy fiction novel. J.R.R. Tolkien's master work has a rather simplistic two-dimensional ''"you are either Good or Evil and that's all there is to it.''" feel about the morality and the motivation of characters. As Tolkien's Middle Earth was heavily influenced by Tolkien's Christianity, and the notion that all that is Good comes of faith in and duty to God, while all that is Evil comes of rejection of God and joining in the Fall, this dichotomy excludes a Third Way.

The Third Way is introduced by fantasy writer Michael Moorcock, who thought about the mechanics involved, and came up with a moral picture drawn as much from science as from mysticism. Moorcock, drawing his cue from the scientific laws of thermodynamics, insisted the primal struggle in the Multiverse was not between Good and Evil but between the opposed forces of Law and Chaos. After making that primal alignment, a character was free to make a secondary alignment with Good, Evil or the third state - '''''Neutral''''' - as he or she pleased.

Being of the Law does not necessarily mean you are Good - consider the [[Auditors]] - and being of Chaos does not necessarily mean you are Evil. Consider Ronnie [[Soak]].

Moorcock's system offers so much choice and scope for delineating more complex three-dimensional characters that [[Dungeons and Dragons]] creator Gary Gygax adopted it wholesale. But here, in the Discworld, we are being explicitly told it is not an option - '''''"No one could have been Neutral when the Dark War had engulfed Far Überwald"''''' The Dark War takes its referents, therefore, from Tolkien and not Moorcock/Gygax.

('''''More Here:- [[http://wiki.lspace.org/index.php?title=Reading_suggestions&section=32]]. Ref.''''' author Mary Gentle and book "''Grunts''". In which a captured Orc is heavily laden with chains and secured to an anvil in the hope that this renders it dormant.)

Mary Gentle, like Neil Gaiman, is the subject of a dedication of an earlier Discworld book (the [[H.P. Lovecraft Holiday Fun Club]] consisted of her and several others from the new wave of British sci-fi/fantasy, including Neil). ''Two'' previous Discworld novels, in fact: she gets an explicit personal dedication in {{G!G!}}. It would seem logical then, that TP is aware of her writing and has perhaps referenced it in the Discworld.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p45)''' '''''Ridcully swayed backwards, like a man subjected to an attack by a hitherto comatose sheep'''''

In the UK House of Commons in June 1978 the Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer was Denis Healey.
He described being attacked in June 1978 by mild mannered Conservative shadow Chancellor Geoffrey Howe as ''"like being savaged by a dead sheep".''

Such an attack can be lethal if timed right. The selfsame Sir Geoffrey Howe, formerly a fawning loyalist, lost his temper in 1990 and launched a bitter and scathing speech to a packed Commons that contributed to the downfall of the previously unassailable Margaret Thatcher. Within a fortnight of Howe's attack - again likened to that of a dead sheep - she was gone, deposed as PM.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p46)''' '''''-How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless Dean'''''

Shakespeare is being paraphrased here. King Lear's furious and anguished speech of betrayal on being (apparently) rejected by an ungrateful child, despite everything he has done for her, in which he at first wishes infertility on her, and then

''If she must teem,''

''Create her child of spleen; that it may live,''

''And be a thwart disnatured torment to her!''

''Let it stamp wrinkles in her brow of youth;''

''With cadent tears fret channels in her cheeks;''

''Turn all her mother's pains and benefits''

''To laughter and contempt; that she may feel''

'''''How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is'''''

'''''To have a thankless child!''''' ''Away, away!''

from '''''King Lear''''' [http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/188900.html]

Other Shakeperian references, filtered on the Discworld through the prolific pen of the dwarf [[Hwel]], occur on '''''page 167''''', where Ridcully and Stibbons are considering the ball that goes ''gloing!'' (''There are more things in Heaven and Disc than are dreamed of in our philosophies...'').
And on '''''page 387,''''', where Glenda and Mr Nutt go to the theatre to witness a Hix-suggested production by the [[Dolly Sisters Players]], called '''''Starcrossed''''', also written by Hwel. This not only continues the ''Romeo and Juliet'' motif running through the book, it is explicitly described as ''one of the great romantic plays of the last fifty years''. In our timescale, the Bernstein/Sondheim musical '''''West Side Story''''', where the plot of ''Romeo and Juliet'' is updated to warring city street gangs, was first performed in 1957, making it 52 years old.

I don't think it's pressing things too far to suggest that the evil Dr Hix's love of amateur dramatics might be a sly dig at one CMOT Briggs...

Another piece of Python-esque British humour that can be referenced here is the classic radio comedy sketch performed by the ''Son of Cliché'' troupe (including a very young and pre-Arnold Rimmer comedian called Christopher Barrie), in which the FA Cup final of 1982 is re-written as though it were a Shakesperian play of the heroic ''Henry V'' genre being performed at London's National Theatre.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.49)''' '''''"Just speak with a little more class, eh? You don't have to sound like--"'''''

'''''"My fare, lady?"'''''

Referring to "My Fair Lady" where street flower seller Eliza Doolittle improves her cockney speech to the point where she's taken for a fine lady at an embassy ball.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p51)''' '''''"Miss Healstether found him a book on scent"'''''. Mr Nutt's early life, education and reception by his peers is reminiscent of that of the character Grenouille in Patrick Süskind's novel '''''Perfume''''', who is similarly scorned, hated, and making his way up (or at least across) from the bottom. It is also worth noting that Grenouille was raised by a priest, for at least part of his life, and was effectively chained to a Hell-like cellar apprenticeship until offered opportunity to better himself. Like Steerpike in Gormenghast, (another literary anti-hero who has a similar early life), Grenouille finally becomes a manipulative monster with a sinister power over people...

'''Football team colours''' - from Wikipedia:-

*The leader in the Giro d'Italia cycle race wears a pink jersey (''maglia rosa''); this reflects the distinctive pink-colored newsprint of the sponsoring Italian La Gazzetta dello Sport newspaper.
*The University of Iowa's Kinnick Stadium visitors' locker room is painted pink. The decor has sparked controversy, perceived by some people as suggesting sexism and homophobia.
* Palermo, a soccer team based in Palermo, Italy, traditionally wears pink home jerseys.

Palermo is also the heart of Mafia and Machismo country, in Sicily: presumably they have transcended the whole pink thing as immaterial.

The Hungarian international strip appears to be red and green with pink trim.

The Liseberg district of Gothenberg in Sweden hosts three soccer clubs. The local city colours are pink and green, which goes back to mediaeval times, but alas none of the three clubs plays in them.

One manufacturer of soccer favours markets a pink-and-green scarf, but regrettably there's no clue as to which club it is associated with.

In many cities in the North of England, in pre-Internet and pre-Sky TV days, there would be a late edition of the Saturday evening paper, carrying nothing but the final sports results of the day, and it would be printed on pink paper. (Except in Sheffield, where for some reason it was the Sporting Green). Pink and Green again...

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p52)''' '''''Miss Healstether sounded bitter. "Stand by then, because he's discovered the [[Bonk School]]."'''''
This is the Discworld equivalent of later German/Austrian philosophers such as Wittgenstein. On Roundworld, the Vienna School is also a collective name used for the emergent psychoanalysts of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, such as Freud, Jung and Adler, whose works are often taught in university philosophy departments for want of anywhere less controversial to pigeon-hole them. This leads to several amusingly entertaining associations: given Mr Nutt's later destiny as football team manager, with the more reflective, introverted and philosophical sort of squad boss such as Sven-Göran Eriksson. There are also echoes of famously philosophical players, such as the Manchester United and France star Eric Cantona, an interview with whom could easily befuddle the average back-page journalist, as Cantona was (and is) fond of peppering interviews with philosophical ''apercus''. Also, need we mention the classic Monty Python sketch where the whole of the German and Greek international football teams are made up of their nations' respective star philosophers? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiZt79UKUFQ] The one exception in the German team, who deserves mention for going along with the joke, is the then West German national football team captain Franz Beckenbauer, who appears on the field looking frustrated at the philosophical reflection and lack of football going on around him.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p53)''' '''''"They are the ones who go on about what happens if ladies don't get enough mutton, and they say cigars are--"
"That is a fallacy!"'''''

Sigmund Freud, when asked if his cigar was a phallic symbol, is supposed to have said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

A similar phallus/fallacy joke has appeared in a previous Discworld book in reference to witches' broomsticks.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p67)''' '''''"They're two teams alike in villainy."'''''

Prologue to "Romeo and Juliet" "Two households, both alike in dignity..." It could also be an example of football commentators' random (if sometimes intellectual) phrases...

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p70)''' '''''"But I'm a Face, right?"'''''. Trevor Likely's proud assertion of his status in the ranks of the Dimmers, and his being known throughout all the Boroughs, reflects British soccer hooligan counter-culture where the leaders, best fighters, and other notorious individuals in the various Firms are known as Faces. The term was also used by counter-cultural young male gangs in the 1950's and 1960's: Teddy Boys in the 50's, and Mods and Rockers in the 60's, most notorious gang members and hardest fighters were called Faces. In the latter case - 1960's scooter mods - there is even a musical about it: the Who's rock opera ''Quadrophenia'', about London Mods. The Who also had an early single called called ''I'm the Face'', written for them by their then-manager Peter Meaden, who had also changed their name to The High Numbers. The single, an attempt to appeal to the mod audience, flopped, The High Numbers changed managers again and reverted to being The Who.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p73)''' ''''' 'Gentlemen' Ridcully began ...'or should I say, fellow workers by hand and brain' '''''

'Workers by hand and brain' is a key phrase in original Clause IV for the British Labour Party. This was written by Beatrice and Sidney Webb, leading members of the Fabian Society.

''To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service''

Clause IV was revised (not abolished) in 1995.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p80)'''. With regard to the makeover of Professor Hicks into the University's licensed evil wizard. In his physical description and general attitude, is there a certain sly reference creeping in to the teaching wizards of Slytherin House, in a certain J.K. Rowling's fantasies about a school of wizardry? Or, indeed, to a certain Dark Lord whose name cannot be uttered, save that it most coincidentally also begins with a "V"? And all this is in the context a of a sport which wizards must learn to love (if only to stop their cornucopia drying up and the flow of big dinners ebbing to a trickle.) A sport which most categorically must be played within agreed rules, with no magic ''at all'' being used, which involves getting a resolutely un-magical ball into a goal. Anyone for Quidditch, whoops sorry, Foot-the-Ball? Interestingly, when Ridcully is temporarily possessed by the shade of PE master Evans the Striped, it is Hix who performs a crude but effective exorcism with the knob on the end of his staff. What might Hix be able to reveal about the act of insorcism that put Evans' soul in there in the first place?

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p87)''': ''Glenda would have followed him like a homing vulture'' A reference to ex-Python Michael Palin's gritty slice of Northern working-class life, ''The Testing of Eric Olthwaite'', in which the little-known Northern English sport of racing homing vultures is discussed at great length. It is possible one of Reg Bag's prize homing vultures was called ''Glenda''.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p107)''' '''''"I just happened to be holding a knife. You are holding a knife.We hold knives. This is a kitchen."'''''

Reminiscent of "The Lion in Winter", where Queen Elanor says "Of course he has a knife, he always has a knife, we all have knives! It's 1183 and we're barbarians!"

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p113)''' '''''"Oh, Mr Trevor Likely" said Glenda, folding her arms. "Just one question: who ate all the pies?"'''''

This is a classic chant to be heard across British football grounds. Fans tend to be merciless to a player perceived as having fallen from the pinnacle of physical fitness and to have put weight on, in the form of visible fat. The full chant, aimed at the luckless fat boy, runs: ''Who ate all the pies? Who ate all the pies? '''''You''''' fat bastard, '''''you''''' fat bastard, you ate all the pies!'' (tune: '''Knees up, Mother Brown'''). Footballers thus singled out for dietary advice from the terraces have included England's idiot savant and flawed genius, Paul Gascoigne.

A charming piece of trivia. ''Who ate all the pies?'' is quite possibly the oldest known fan chant to have been continuously sung on English terraces. It was born in honour of {{wp|William_Foulke_(footballer)|William Henry "Fatty" Foulke}}, the legendary Sheffield United goalkeeper whose playing career spanned 1894-1910. Six foot two and a svelte twelve stone at the start of his career, he was an early victim of success and the extravagant professional footballer lifestyle (Edwardian style). By 1902, he was estimated to weigh twenty-five stones (350 pounds) ''and was still playing top-level football.'' His Sheffield United faithful sang it in his honour, albeit without the "you fat bastard" line. You wonder if Terry was aware of this when he wrote the character of the Ankh United goalkeeper, who is seen eating and gorging his way through the big game...
:Rotund, pie-eating keepers are still seen, at least in the National League, but the Association is clamping down...see [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/sports/soccer/wayne-shaw-sutton-soccer-pie.html Wayne Shaw].

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.122)''' '''''Robert Scandal's famous poem, "Oi! To his Deaf Mistress".'''''

Refers to Andrew Marvell's "To His Coy Mistress".

Also '''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p122)''' '''''Nutt was technically an expert on love poetry throughout the ages... he had tried to discuss it with Ladyship, but she had laughed and said that it was frivolity, although quite useful as a tutorial on the art of vocabulary, scansion rhythm, and affect as a means to an end, to wit, getting a young lady to take all her clothes off.'''''

This is suspiciously reminiscent of Sigismundo Celine's reflections on romantic poetry, in guerrilla ontologist Robert Anton Wilson's '''''The historical Illuminatus: The Widow's Son'''''. In which the wunderkind Celine, imprisoned in the Bastille, passes time by reading the prison library. He decides about love poems that

''they mostly argue the case that a Certain Woman is like a certain Natural Phenomenon (sunlight, stars, birds, flowers, et c) and that the poet's heart, in response to this fact, was like another Natural Phenomenon (parched desert, wounded animal, dark cave, et c) and that there was only one natural resolution to this natural conjunction of natural phenomena. He gathered that she would have to take her clothes off.'' (p. 149 R.A.Wilson, '''''The Widow's Son''''', Lynx Books, New York, pub. 1985) For more Wilson and hints on other ways his thoughts and ideas might have filtered through Pratchett's brain and into Discworld, see Reading Suggestions).

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.124)''' '''''[S]omeone at the Royal Art Museum had found the urn in an old storeroom, and it contained scrolls which, it said here, had the original rules of foot-the-ball laid down in the early years of the century of the Summer Weevil, a thousand years ago, when the game was played in honour of the goddess Pedestriana.'''''

As gods and religion are involved, it may be of note that a similar incident is described in the Bible, specifically in 2 Kings Ch. 22. Supposedly, a "Book of the Law" was found in the Temple, dating back centuries to Moses himself, but which had somehow been lost. As the book described rules that were in the best interests of the Temple and the priests there, scholars who aren't Biblical fundamentalists generally suspect that the ancient book (likely an early version of what we now call Deuteronomy) had been recently composed.

This being the Discworld, this book of rules apparently is ancient ''and'' has just been composed.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p135)''' '''''"Good point, well put," said Ridcully, "and I shall marshal my responses thusly." He flicked a finger and, with a smell of gooseberries and a pop, a small red globe appeared in the air over the table.'''''

Is this a magical powerpoint demonstration?

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p158)''' '''''"Dolly Sisters, right? Sounds like the Botney Street area. I'm sure of it". said Pépé ''''' This is in the crab-bucket discourse, about how people from lowly areas with big ideas are beaten back into thinking small by their peers.

Satirical magazine '''''Private Eye''''' once revealed a secret about BBC Arts supremo, talking head on the gentler, more refined, things in life, and broadcasting giant, Alan Yentob. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Yentob] Although Yentob adamantly denies it, the Eye revealed that he was born in lowly circumstances in East London as Alan ''Botney'', and reversed his surname for professional reasons to make it look more interesting and artsy. Yentob/Botney has refrained, however, from suing the Eye for libel over this assertion. Is this a hidden reason for Terry's naming a street in Lobbin Clout after him?

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p167)''' '''''"You gave the ball a mighty kick, Mister Stibbons, and yet you are, by your own admission, a wet and a weed."'''''
Molesworth, a schoolboy and the narrating character in a series of books by Geoffrey Willans, would consistently refer to his brother, Molesworth 2, as "a wet and a weed."

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p198)''' '''''"Owlspring-Tips diagram"'''''

The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertzsprung%E2%80%93Russell_diagram Herzsprung-Russell diagram] is used in astronomy to plot the absolute magnitude of stars against their spectral class.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p201)''' '''''"That's right, of course" said the former Dean. "Your father was a butcher, as I recall".'''''
Later on, there is explicit mention of the large, strong, hands Ridcully inherited from his butcher father.
There is a continuity problem here: when Ridcully first enters the series in {{MP}}, it is explicitly said that he became a seventh-level mage at a phenomenally young age, then retired from active Wizarding to return home and run the extensive family estates. Certainly, his demeanour and behaviour is that of the rumbustious country squire who drinks port by the pint and considers slaughtering the wildlife to be a perk of social rank. Such a man would not concern himself with butchering, save in the rough-and-ready method utilised just after a successful hunt. Similarly, a butcher would not normally be expected to kill his animals - in normal circumstances, they arrive freshly killed by somebody else. And to be able to afford large country estates, you would surely need be a ''very successful'' butcher? Something of a problem here, I fear. On '''page 41''', Ridcully's grandfather is first mentioned as a religiously-inclined prizefighter who made musical boxes for a living and who scored two goals against Dimwell ''in one match''. This can be excused and incorporated into the canon without breaking continuity with what we already know about Ridcully - everybody gets two grandfathers, after all. But the wiggle room disappears when his father is described as a city-based butcher and not a country squire.... It is possible that the land comes from his mother's side of the family. Being the offspring of a frowned-upon marriage (highborn lady, lowborn butcher) may well explain some of Ridcully's stubborn attitude.

Also, the book suggests Ridcully was brought up in Ankh-Morpork and his butcher father took him to football matches. This really doesn't square with what we know about the Ridcully brothers from previous books in the series.

However, it is mentioned that not all those experiences were true ones. Ponder, for instance, remembers being taken to see the football by his father despite being raised by an aunt.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p200)''' '''''"You are after the Hat" said Ridcully, flatly.'''''

The rivalry between Mustrum and, er, Henry, crystallises in Henry's offer that the two magical Universities should fight it out on the field of sport, the stake being the [[Archchancellor's Hat]] in which reposes the soul of Wizardry and the essence of many thousands of Archchancellors past. This is made clear in an earlier dialogue on pp197-199.

There is a continuity problem here with events in {{S}}. Having got the Hat out of Ankh-Morpork over to Klatch and therefore temporarily out of reach of the Sourcerer, Rincewind and Conina are imprisoned by the wicked vizier Abrim, who takes the Hat for his own. Abrim then builds a tower and challenges Ankh-Morpork, but owing to intervention by the Luggage, is distracted for just long enough for concentrated magic to blow him, the tower, and most crucially the Hat, into tiny tiny smithereens. After Abrim's destruction, the Hat is never heard of again - it is presumed destroyed, atomized by greater forces. It is certainly not used again as a plot device in {{S}}, and is in the fullness replaced by Ridcully's wilderness-survival Hat: a symbol of a different University with different priorities. Yet on pp225-227, Vetinari discusses the Hat as if it is still in physical existence, none the worse for its trip to Klatch and its last known wearing on the head of a failed wizard who was blasted into his component atoms.

Unless Henry and Mustrum are playing for a purely symbolic Hat (which like the Ashes never leaves London, however often Australia beat England), or the original Hat was included in Coin's promise to the Librarian to restore everything to what it was, as good as old (but it is never mentioned again in the canon, until now?), then it's hard to see anything other than a continuity glitch here.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p202)''' '''''Ponder Stibbons says "I'm even the Camerlengo, which means that if you drop dead, Archchancellor, from any cause other than legitimate succession under the Dead Man's Pointy Shoes tradition, I run this place until a successor is elected which, given the nature of wizardry, will mean a job for life."'''''

The [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03217a.htm Camerlengo](Italian for "chamberlain) of the Roman Catholic Church is, among other duties, the person in charge of the Vatican between the death of one pope and the election of the next. His job is not normally as exciting as Dan Brown describes it in "Angels and Demons."

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p203)''' '''''"Most of them were old enough to recall at least two pitched battles among factions of wizards, the worst of which had only been brought to a conclusion by Rincewind, wielding a half-brick in a sock..."'''''

As described at the end of ''"Sourcery."''

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p224)''' '''''Glenda says "You're giving them Avec. Nearly every dish has got Avec in it, but stuff with Avec in the name is an acquired taste."'''''

"Avec" is the French (and probably restaurant Quirmian) word for "with."

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p251)''' '''''"What is your favourite spoon?"'''''

Pepe has just informed Glenda that a lot of people want to ask Juliet some very important questions, including this one.

The satirical magazine '''''Private Eye''''' carries a "Me and My Spoon" column in every edition, in which a celebrity is quizzed minutely about their favourite spoon. This column is meant as a joke at the expense of those journalists - not always on gossip/trivia magazines of the [[Bu-Bubble]] type - who persist in asking the most vacuous, trivial, and lazy questions of the people they are interviewing. As a sort of foreshadowing of this, Vetinari is seen to be playing with a spoon during the dinner at the University, thoughtfully studying it and the way the varying concavity and convexity of it alters his reflection.

Interestingly, a place-name with an unambiguously Irish ring to it - ''Cladh'' - is introduced here. Until now - with the possible exception of a couple of minor character names - there has not been a hint of anywhere Ireland-like on the Disc, although there is a Wales-like country and a suspiciously Caledonian aura to the NacMac Feegle. Is this a portent for the future? ''Cladh", pronounced "Cla(h)'', may derive from an Irish Gaelic root for "circle" or "ring".

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p272-273)'''
The crowd gathering to witness Nutt in his travail, chained to a bench and fully aware of his Orc-hood for the first time. The named speakers are a Butcher and a Baker. Who are looking upon Nutt, a Candle(stick)maker....

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p282)''' '''''"Is this going to be like the Moving Pictures?"'''''

Given that Dr Hix, via a handy Omniscope, is proposing to replay part of the Battle of '''Orc's Deep''', then the answer may be "yes". This could well be a back handed tribute to the film adaptation of ''{{wp|The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Two_Towers|The Two Towers}}'', the second in the film trilogy of ''The Lord Of The Rings'' dealing with the battle of Helm's Deep, and introducing Orcs as a potent fighting force. The fact Glenda also remembers the Moving Pictures is significant, as she can be no older than twenty. Doubly interesting, in a city where a convenient group amnesia appears to settle at the end of every fad or fancy... Another (minor) continuity slip occurs here: Hix, acknowledging Glenda's reference to the Moving Pictures, refers to "popcorn", a word unknown on the Disc. Which does, however, have "banged grains" (although - continuity slip within continuity slip! - [[Hwel]] briefly mentions "popcorn" in one of his plays during {{WS}}). The second referent is to the Roundworld battle of Rorke's Drift, but this has already been parodied in an orc-related context by fantasy writer Mary Gentle (in her short story "The Battle of Orc's Drift", the Orcs are surprised and stitched up a treat by an enemy with lots of similarity to the Feegle).

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p314)''' '''''"Was it a football team of Orcs?"''''' By his own admission, Terry Pratchett was once heavily involved in fantasy RPG gaming of the "Dungeons and Dragons" variety. A spin-off from D&D, marketed by the British fantasy gaming and world domination corporation Games Workshop, was called '''''Blood Bowl [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Bowl]'''''. In this, a board game/RPG loosely based on American Football, teams drawn from the various fantasy races played each other, utilising their traditional cultural and racial strengths and weaknesses in a sport combining grace, athleticism, and sadistic brutality. It is difficult to believe TP is not aware of this game, nor of the fact that Orcs, being nearest in temperament and body shape to American footballers, had an inbuilt advantage. It may also be a reference to another game by Games Workshop called Warhammer 40,000; the orcs in this series (here called Orks) are often said to have been based on 'English football hooligans' and serve as a comedy relief race in the setting. It is notable that they would be very enthusiastic about the more brutal form of Ankh-Morpork foot-the-ball.

"Orc's Deep" may also have a second level of allusion, to the famous Roundworld battle of Rorke's Drift. However, ''"The Battle of Orc's Drift"'' has already been done by fantasy writer Mary Gentle. (see above) In her story, the Orcs encounter a faerie race not unlike the Feegle...
and in any case, Terry Pratchett has referenced, although not expanded on, a famous Discworld battle at ''Lawke's Drain'', which may have been in Howondaland.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p320)''' "Fartmeister" Carter has just been badly beaten up by the established villain Andy and his gang, at least in part to send an unmistakable message to Trev Likely. This echoes a scene in the classic gangster film '''''Get Carter''''', in which the local mob, inconvenienced by London gangster Carter's attempts to disrupt them, go gunning for him. They miss Carter (Michael Caine), but console themselves by beating his friend and local ally to a bloody pulp. In this case - Carter has been well and truly got.

"Fartmeister" echoes the case of the star professional footballer let down by a bad choice of best friend, who can so easily become a leech on him. Think of the role played by Jimmy "Two-Bellies" in the drink-related downfall of genuinely gifted flawed legend Paul Gascoigne - an ill-advised best friend who Gascoigne could not bear to lose on becoming famous and who provided embarrassment at best, and career-destroying drunken benders at worst. And the film "Get Carter" is even set in Newcastle, Gascoigne's home town...

And there is also virtually the entire Rooney family, a clan of Liverpool scallies so notorious that the fragrant Coleen wanted to exclude the entire tribe from her wedding to Wayne. (a gifted footballer not known for his physical good looks: there is a certain Orc-like component to Wayne even in a good light).

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p321, 327, 361)''' - Mrs Atkinson - ''..one of the most feared Faces who had ever wielded a sharpened umbrella with malice aforethought.''

This elderly lady, as well as evoking a freelance [[Agony Aunts|Agony Aunt]], is very typical of the hordes of shrieking old ladies who would descend on professional wrestling events* every Saturday to berate, belabour and batter the participants. Eighteen stone muscle-mountains would be scared of them, as a Mrs Atkinson rushing the ring who had deliberately sharpened her umbrella to a point could really ''hurt'' if she jabbed it into the thigh or buttock. Any wrestler thrown out of the ring to land theatrically in among the seated crowd ould not want to be dropped among a group of Atkinsons, who could be relied upon to prod, poke, pinch, kick, stab and spit as he made his shaky way back to the bottom rope. Kendo Nagasaki, a legend among British pro wrestlers, who played the evil baddie role in the ring, is on record as saying he feared nothing so much as a bloodthirsty seventy-year old lady with a sharp umbrella.

* *We are talking about British pro wrestling here, generally a more cheap and cheerful spit-and-sawdust affair than the glitzy and improbable American WWF circuit. This is the sort of contest broadcast live from Dewsbury City Hall at four o'clock on a Saturday, invariably hosted by Kent Walton, while the nation waited for its football results in the 1970's. Ah, great days.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p330)''' - Mr Nutt quotes book title ''The Doors of Deception''. A play on Aldous Huxley's philosophical treatise on using psychedelic drugs to expand the senses - ''The Doors of Perception''. (This also inspired the name of a 60's psychedelic rock band fronted by Jim Morrison, of course).

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p336)''' Another troubling continuity error emerges concerning Mustrum Ridcully. In {{RM}}, the detail emerges, in the context of a conversation with his brother Hughnon the High Priest, whilst discussing life's little consolations in the face of Mrs Cake, that Hughnon is a teetotaller and cannot for religious reasons touch his brother's emergency brandy (but subsequently does anyway); he then asks Mustrum for a cigarette, and it emerges that his brother is a non-smoker with equally vehement reasons not to touch the blasted things. But here, on pages 338 and 339, after forbidding sex, smokes, strong drink and excess food to the football team, Mustrum is desperately searching his rooms for an emergency cigarette only to discover Mrs Whitlow has hidden them all, in accordance with his wishes. Far from being a non-smoker, Mustrum Ridcully now has at least three stashes of tobacco, rolling paper and cigarettes for emergencies. In the interim since {{RM}}, has Ridcully taken up the evil habit, as might be contractually expected of a senior Wizard? This is a niggling continuity point. (And has been since {{H}}, when Ridcully's pipe is mentioned on three occasions, including the detail that he uses "herbal tobacco" that smells of bonfires; perhaps it's only the regular stuff he objects to.)

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, pp360-62)''' The incident of the banana(s) flung onto the pitch. This reflects the nasty and distasteful racist streak in British football fans as recently as the 1990's, where if a team played a black player (in an overwhelmingly white side) a predominantly white crowd was likely to welcome the black player with massed "ook-ook!" monkey noises, mimed scratching of armpits and flea-picking, and the throwing onto the pitch of many, many, bananas. (One of the earliest black players to join a British team, London's West Ham, made a brave face of it by saying he'd never needed to pay for another banana ever again. West Ham, incidentally, were the preferred side of fictional TV racist Alf Garnett).

Of course a real ape would attract "ook-ook" noises, a stand full of idiots all trying to get away with the m-word in relative safety, and, in this case, a poisoned banana.

This practice has been virtually eradicated in British football (by sanctions including ensuring local greengrocers do not sell bananas to football fans on match days, refusing entry to the ground to those carrying bananas, and making the throwing of them into an ejection/arrestable offence.) But it persists in Europe, especially in Spain.

The final taboo in British football is now beginning to be addressed: up until recently it was seen as a huge joke to verbally belabour gay players as black footballers were before them. (Note the presence in this game of Bengo Macarona, a man who has led indignant ''wives'' to bring divorce actions.) In real life, footballer Justin Fashanu[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu] had it twice over: once for being black, and once for coming out as gay. Fashanu eventually committed suicide. The story is quite shocking from anybody's point of view and is by all accounts typical of the treatment of out gay men in professional sport. Incidentally, Macarona's squad number is "69" for some unfathomable reason. (Although elsewhere we are told the Seamstresses' Guld clacks number is Ankh-Morpork 69, chosen for the advertising associations, this surely must be coincidence...)

Also on page 361: Glenda Sugarbean invents what, if this were {{SM}} and the crowd were gathered for a rock concert, would be called "crowd-surfing" as she descends down from the stands to the pitch. A hazard of crowd-surfing in the mosh-pit for most women would be inadvertent or deliberate groping: Glenda is disappointed that this happens to her not even once.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p366)''' Bledlow Nobbs, a man desperately trying to deny a relationship to Nobby Nobbs of the Watch, is summed up by Trev with "Nobbsy is a clogger at heart."

A member of England's World Cup winning team of 1966 was Manchester United legend Nobby Stiles, an uncompromising defender who had lost all his teeth young, some to natural causes, and who used to disconcert opposing forwards by a toothless gummy grin before he went into tackle. Nobby Stiles was a very definite clogger of the old school.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p385)''' '''''"You think it's all over?"'''''

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p389)''' '''''"You think it's all over?"'''''

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p397)''' '''''"You think it's all over?"'''''

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p400)''' '''''"It is now!"'''''

A reference to the classic BBC commentary at the end of the World Cup Final in 1966, where at Wembley Stadium in London, England beat West Germany 4-2 with the referee unaccountably adding more and more extra time. Kenneth Wolstenholme drily says ''there are some people on the pitch... they think it's all over... it is now!'' This piece of British deadpan, where a South American or Italian commentator would have been screaming with excitement, has justly gone down in commentating glory.

As a secondary note, it is commonly believed that the English side winning the World Cup in 1966 occurred in the run-up to a general election. Eventual winner Harold Wilson, an exceedingly sharp Prime Minister more than slightly touched by Vetinari-ish deviousness, who is supposed to have later said that the feelgood factor engendered by the football match was the biggest single decider that elected him back into office. He speculated that had England ''lost'', government change would have been inevitable, for the same superficially irrelevant reason. What would a similar "feelgood factor" do for Lord Vetinari, a man not concerned with mere elections... In reality, the 1966 general election took place in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1966 March], while the World Cup took place in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_World_Cup July], and could not have affected the result.

This was borne out in 1970, where the World Cup Finals actually did coincide with the run-up to an election called by Wilson. Against all expectations, holders England crashed out at a lower stage - to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_FIFA_World_Cup#Quarter-finals West Germany] - and former Prime Minister Harold Wilson duly found himself the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1970 Leader of the Opposition].

'''kitchen maid literature'''

In Dutch, we have an expression 'kitchen maid literature' for the kind of books Glenda reads. I have not been able to ascertain if the same expression also exists in English, but if it does... Of course Glenda is a cook, not a kitchen maid, but still.

'''Juliet the WAG'''

Juliet is, of course, the Discworld's first example of what the UK press refer to as a "WAG" - the 'Wives And Girlfriends' of famous footballers (eg Victoria ('Posh') Beckham). Stereotypically, WAGS are incredibly glamourous but also incredibly vacuous, just like Juliet. The union of a famous footballer (ie Trev Likely) to a fashion model (ie Juliet) is a very typical WAG situation. Trev & Juliet are the Discworld's "Posh & Becks" (Mr & Mrs David Beckham).

[[Category:Annotations|Unseen Academicals]]

Talk:Reading suggestions

2021-10-20T13:47:11Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Talk:Reading suggestions to Talk:Reading suggestions on Wheels!

==New Catagory?==
...perhaps a new category could be created, like [[:Category:Influences]], since I think they were influenced by or influences of Terry Pratchett. --[[User:AutisticMajor|AutisticMajor]] 22:21, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I thought of making [[Reading suggestions]] a category including articles about such "foreigners"; it would avoid the presumption of knowing what anyone's influences were. Any other category suggestions? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

==Numbers==
The author list looks tidier after alphabetically re-arranging them in order of surname. One little shame, though: Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson are no longer in the 23rd position. Could it be possible to "tweak" things so they go to number 23? Anyone familiar with their writings will know why they should go here, even though the alphabetical ordering is slightly out... 
and then Douglas Adams will have to be 42: it's going to get complicated. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 18:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC) ...and it'll need maintenance if there are additions before "M".

Oh, wow... just noticed. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 02:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
:Ah, I warned you. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:13, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Douglas Adams now firmly fixed at his correct home at no.42. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 14:24, 23 September 2011 (CEST)
:Um...it's at 43 I believe...ah well. We could put in a note asking people to just pretend it's 42 or something. --[[User:AnnieBudgie|AnnieBudgie]] ([[User talk:AnnieBudgie|talk]]) 11:31, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
::Oh, dear. It's all AgProv's fault...One day I'll be dead and THEN you'll all be sorry. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 14:40, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

==Link Locations==
I know [[User:C3POwen|C3POwen]] did a lot of work moving the links from the titles to the bottom of the entries but I actually preferred them the old way. What does every one else think? --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 08:10, 3 November 2011 (CET)
:Me too. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 22:39, 3 November 2011 (CET)
:It also bugs me a bit that it wash't discussed on the talk page at all beforehand.--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 07:49, 4 November 2011 (CET)
::Apologies. I've found that some talk pages do not always seem to generate a response, for whatever reason that may be. You're more than welcome to revert them, using the undo function. --[[User:C3POwen|C3POwen]] 18:06, 4 November 2011 (CET)
:::That happens to everyone unfortunately, but I am going to undo that edit. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 03:38, 6 November 2011 (CET)
I just realized that because of AgProv's edits I can't just go back and undo C3POwen's edits; any advice?--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 03:44, 6 November 2011 (CET)

Just before I go to bed: is it possible to selectively choose in History which edits you undo? Skip mine, and tick an earlier edit? If not, I don't mind losing my apercu about Piers Anthony, who by his own confession or boast is a "dirty-minded old man" (which is true, but there's dirty-minded and there's dirty-minded... I'm not into censorship or book-burning, but iI don't think I'll be reading ''Firefly'' any time soon...)--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 04:11, 6 November 2011 (CET)

Some books should come with a ''this book describes practices which are by anyone's standards of morality somewhat illegal and antisocial in your jurisdiction'' warning...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 04:13, 6 November 2011 (CET)
:You can also go back to any previous version and then re-create whatever you want since. It's just more work. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 04:32, 6 November 2011 (CET)
Unfortunately when you try to selectively undo an edit it won't let you due to 'conflicting intermediate edits', so I will undo them and then recreate AgProv's work but I will wait untill I am less tired.--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 06:08, 6 November 2011 (CET)

I just tried to undo AgProv's edits so I could get to C3POwen's, But I ran into some trouble and had to undo my undo. Can someone else try and see if they can figure out why it would let me undo the edits.--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 08:18, 7 November 2011 (CET)
:It's getting complicated. I'd have to replace the page with the version of 18:43, 2 November 2011, then copy and paste the additions since. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 00:24, 8 November 2011 (CET)
::It has reached a point where it may be pointless to try to undo it. I'll just do it manually. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 00:38, 8 November 2011 (CET)
:::One Moment.... --[[User:Fhh98|Fhh98]] 02:25, 8 November 2011 (CET)
:::RegEx Search and Replace is your friend... --[[User:Fhh98|Fhh98]] 02:40, 8 November 2011 (CET)
::::Thanks!!!!!!!! That was much faster then I could have done it manually. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 02:54, 8 November 2011 (CET)
:Rocket98 to the rescue again...--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 03:13, 8 November 2011 (CET)...oh, but we still have the duplicate Wikipedia links below. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 03:51, 8 November 2011 (CET)
::At this point I don't care about that as much, besides I had the idea that after the paragraph on the author we could have some external links to places like the authors website (if they have one), biographys and other information related to the author that isn't in their little description.--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 04:12, 8 November 2011 (CET)

I left the links at the bottom since it isn't always obvious that the header is also a link.--[[User:Fhh98|Fhh98]] 04:58, 8 November 2011 (CET)
:You don't think the page is long enough? Zdm just restates C3POwen's reason for the original makeover, to which he objected. I'm confused. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:44, 8 November 2011 (CET)
::I realize that my comment was a little confusing, I'm sorry about that. What I meant was that we have the Wikipedia page about the author already linked to in the title so we could get rid of the links at the bottom ''but'' it would be nice to also have a link to the authors website as well. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 00:44, 9 November 2011 (CET)

==Exit==

Ray Bradbury isn't in here: probably too obvious... 
'''Ray Bradbury''' taught us all about Mars and the magical events here at home that usually go unnoticed except by a few children. He taught me (although not enough others, sadly) to distinguish between labels and referents. He wrote a lot of good prose over more than seven decades.

I think he may be the last of the great group of sci-fi writers who began in the thirties but emerged after WWII as an elixir against the drab, unimaginative post-war existence. [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 02:31, 7 June 2012 (CEST)

==More? ==

Should we include David Langford? He wrote the two discworld quizbooks, but he also wrote ''The Leaky Establishment'', a book which Terry rated highly:
"''I'd rank this book alongside Michael Frayn's The Tin Men, another neglected classic. I've wanted for years to see it back in print. It is one of those books you end up buying several copies of, because you just have to lend it to friends. It's very funny. It's very real.''" He also said: "''Dave Langford: Wit, slightly deaf person, raconteur and finest swordsman in all of christendom.''"--[[User:Stanley Howler|Stanley Howler]] 10:33, 8 June 2012 (CEST)
:If you recommend it, of course, that's what it's for. On the other hand, the page is getting very long: the index doesn't fit on one screen. A couple of articles are too long for "suggestions" and other entries may be too obscure and hard to find. What about splitting it into ''Fantasy, Sci-Fi'' and ''Straight'' sections (generating arguments over what's fantasy and what's sci-fi, of course)? [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 15:22, 8 June 2012 (CEST)

Newbie here (not to Discworld, which has been comfort reading for half my life or more, but to this wiki). Three authors' names occurred to me, not because TP ever mentioned them as inspirations but because they somehow fit in my mind on the same bookshelf with the others listed here. 1) James Blaylock, American writer of "bent reality" stories not as outrageous as Good Omens but in a somewhat similar mode, adapting grand historical/literary themes to a deceptively simple present-day prose. Not screamingly funny but often gently wry. 2) John Bellairs -- The Face in the Frost -- a vivid, idiosyncratic, and often very funny as well as very scary story about wizards. 3) Jeffrey Barlow, author of the hard-to-pigeonhole Western Lights novels which belong near Naomi Novik's Temeraire series in my personal L-space for their consistent, convincing period style. Again not as hilarious as Discworld, not as rich in in jokes and parody, but a very engaging Otherworld. It is merely coincidence that all these writers' surnames begin with B. I am not going through a long alphabetised list, really. --[[User:Tazling|Tazling]] ([[User talk:Tazling|talk]]) 03:38, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Reading suggestions

2021-10-20T13:47:10Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Reading suggestions to Reading suggestions on Wheels!

A question that regularly pops up is: ''I'm enjoying Pratchett, what other books are there I could possibly enjoy?''. This page is here to help you. If you like Pratchett, these books are recommended by the fans.

*For the more graphically-oriented, see also [[Webcomic and Graphic Novel Suggestions]].

=={{wp|Ben Aaronovitch|Ben Aaronovitch}}==
A former scriptwriter for ''Doctor Who'', Ben has branched out into writing the ''[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_London_(novel)| Rivers of London]'' fantasy series. (Retitled ''Midnight Riot'' in the USA). Peter Grant is a newly-graduated police constable in London. He is less than enchanted to be assigned to a department dealing with records and data-entry, and feels being labelled as a uniformed admin clerk has killed his police career before it has even begun. Then he meets Inspector Nightingale, who he discovers runs a department that the Met reluctantly accepts it has to have, but is less than generally thrilled to admit to and which it regards as an anachronistic embarrassment in this day and age. Grant finds himself re-assigned to The Folly. And becomes a policeman walking a really weird beat - dealing with things of magic, folklore and more-than-myth which are still there in London and need to be policed. He discovers in a city with two thousand years of history, some things are inevitable, and come with the turf. He becomes an apprentice wizard and learns magic is still there. And magical crime needs magical policemen. The higher echelons of the Met and British government are resigned to this and accept there needs to be such a Force. Peter's adventures in the magical underbelly of London are described with black humour and a lot of absurd moments.

Just to make it clear where he gets his inspiration from, Ben dedicates at least one of the books (in which elves ands unicorns figure) to Sir Terry Pratchett, and there's a Discworld reference or two in most of the novels - including that one of Grant's senior police colleagues is a noted fan.

* {{wp|Ben Aaronovitch|Ben Aaronovitch}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Piers Anthony|Piers Anthony}}==
{{wp|Xanth|Xanth}} series. Xanth is a very punny fantasy world. Piers Anthony also writes the "Terry Pratchett is fast, funny, and going places. Try him!" blurb found on many of Terry's books.

Xanth is probably best thought of as the ''Chronicles of Narnia'' played as a ''Carry On'' film.

I personally have found Anthony more corny than funny, with a very robotic, formulaic, writing style and a very dirty mind, even for purported "kids'" books. The humor is far sillier and more lowbrow. -[[User:Cidolfas|Cidolfas]]

Piers Anthony's other series (eg, {{wp|Incarnations_of_Immortality|''Incarnations of Immortality''}} and {{wp|Apprentice_Adept|''Apprentice Adept''}}) are not humorous, and are not similar to Terry's works. At best, the ''Incarnations'' series revolves around the idea that anthropomorphic personalities may "retire" from their jobs and return to the real world as they choose, and may select and train a successor. Anthony's Fate, for instance, takes it a step further and plays with the idea that this anthropomorphic personality might well run down a family dynasty, the female members of which each adopt one of the three faces of the classic Greek Fate. Death, in Anthony's world, is not so much a person as a job description. But this is only superficially similar to Death and Time each being a family business on the Discworld.

"I tried reading ''A Spell for Chameleon'' back in 1986 and threw it across the room after three chapters. I tried again in 2007 and lasted for five chapters. Just can't do it". This illustrates the idea that Xanth, while a tour-de-farce of the imagination, can in some readers evoke a reaction similar to that of Susan Sto Helit when she contemplates dancing across the rooftops with a cheeky cheery chimney sweep. Susan would see nothing wrong in a spoonful of sugar, but gallons of cloying syrup might well provoke a vomiting reflex. Xanth, with its heavy archness, is best approached when in a mood of whimsy and minimal critical function. In this frame of mind, it is not unpleasant, but too much syrup can kill tastebuds. The concept of the Adult Secret involves a perceived Adult Conspiracy to keep children in the dark about sexual matters for as long as possible.

Re-reading Piers Anthony lately - not just Xanth but more mainline novels - I also felt v. uneasy about Piers A's occasional lapses into fascination with the physical development of pubescent girls. In one of the ''Incarnations'' books, for instance, he has an eleven year old girl strip naked while an older relative has a private inner reverie about the attractive shape of her body. It isn't pornographic, and the plot that calls for it isn't too contrived, but it's written in enough loving detail to make me feel uneasy and voyeuristic about reading it. And this isn't exactly an isolated occurrence in his books, ref. an interest in pre-teen girls...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 11:39, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

As a forensic psychologist, I'm writing further to what AgProv has written on the Piers Anthony sexual storyline with the 11 year old child. Frankly, Anthony's writing verges on unlawful pedophilia writings and I am amazed that a mainstream publisher would actually give credence to Anthony's perverted and sick fantasies involving children that are truly DISTURBING. He is like a dirty old man leering over a legal minor in the kind of graphic and sick sexual detail that makes my hair stand on end. Let's be clear - this kind of pedophilia-type "prose" would be condemned almost anywhere, if it wasn't dressed up as 'literature'. Piers Anthony is way out of the league of Terry Pratchett, and shouldn't even be compared. He is not even a poor imitation. I would welcome what others have to say, but for me, Xanth far from being a Chronicles of Narnia, is a poorly-written tripe. What bothers me most is how Piers Anthony writes such plainly disturbing pedophilia sexual accounts involving a minor, which is typical pedophile behavior both pre- and post-action. This should be wholeheartedly condemned by all responsible adults... --[[User:Jongerman|Jongerman]] 09:11, 29 January 2011 (EST)

Further details about PA's approach to sexual content ''[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AuthorAppeal here]''. No editorialising, judge for yourself.

And while the purpose of this entry isn't to try the man, but to point out he HAS written some eminently readable sci-fi and fantasy ('''''Prosthro Plus'''''. about an Earth dentist abducted into Space and having to get up to speed with alien oral hygiene ''very quickly'', is hilarious and recommended), it is perhaps germane to consider a "quest" book Anthony wrote in the Xanth series. It becomes of extreme importance for the questing party to get a true answer to a mystery which gives the novel its name - '''''The Color of Her Panties'''''. In which female knickers pertaining to younger ladies are discussed and described at length. - --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 19:59, 12 May 2011 (CEST)

* {{wp|Piers_Anthony|Piers Anthony}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Kelley Armstrong|Kelley Armstrong}}==
Author of a series of books concerning how members of magical and Undead races have had to "go underground" to survive in the modern USA. '''''"Men of the Otherworld"''''' is about a young Werewolf growing up in his Pack and learning how to behave so as to fit into human society. He is taught who he can eat, when he can eat them, about Pack dynamics and politics, and how not to stand out at school (eating the class guinea pig is a great big no-no).

In '''''"No Humans Involved"''''', the location is a Haunted House TV show. In the UK these are shot in green light in an allegedly haunted house while it is cooling from the day in the wee small hours of the morning. Therefore there are a lot of creaks and drips for an ex-childrens' TV presenter and a camp scouse "psychic" to get excited about.
In Kelley Armstrong's USA, what happens when a ''real'' psychic, in fact a trained and hereditary Necromancer, joins the presenting team on such a show...

Horror done with wicked humour. She has also written the ''Nadia Stafford'' trilogy: about a woman who has the skills, resolve, and methodical ability to plan and avoid ''over-confidence'' that makes her into somebody who could walk into the Guild of Assassins and be instantly welcomed as part of the Sorority.

Reccomendation by --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 17:15, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

* {{wp|Kelley_Armstrong|Kelley Armstrong}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Robert Asprin|Robert Asprin}}==
Author of the hilarious {{wp|Mythadventures|''Mythadventures''}} series of novels, featuring a young magician, his pet dragon, a tough-but-lovable demon friend, a sexy trollop assassin, her hairy troll brother, a couple of mafia hitmen, a moll, and more.

* {{wp|Robert_Asprin|Robert Asprin}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Josef Assad|Josef Assad}}==
Released his first novel [http://www.archive.org/details/JosefAssad_TheBanjoPlayersMustDie ''The Banjo Players Must Die''] under a free Creative Commons license. Reading like a misanthropic Terry Pratchett, it is a dystopian and self-referential history of how Judgment Day came about, for very small values of 'came about'.

* {{wp|Josef_Assad|Josef Assad}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Clive Barker|Clive Barker}}==
Clive Barker is a fantasy writer known for painting amazing watercolors to accompany his writing. Some of his works include the award winning series '''[[Wikipedia:Abarat|Abarat]]''', '''[[Wikipedia:Imajica|Imajica]]''' and '''The Damnation Game'''. The book ''Abarat'' and its sequels tell the story of Candy Quakenbush, a teenage girl who gets pulled into a strange archipelago called The Abarat. The Abarat consists of twenty five islands, each one a different hour of the day, and one island that is time out of time. The series centers around the conflict between the islands of day and the islands of night. While ''Abarat'' and other books by Clive Barker are not a funny as Pratchett's they more then make up for it in oddness and the insanity of the worlds and characters.

* {{wp|Clive_Barker|Clive Barker}} on Wikipedia
* Clive Barker's website: [http://www.clivebarker.info/]

=={{wp|James Bibby|James Bibby}}==
The author of ''Ronan the Barbarian'' and its two sequels, all of which fit perfectly in the genre of comic fantasy. Much like Pratchett's earlier novels (although admittedly, much more ''adult''-oriented), the novel plays on the clichéd fantasy genre, but also includes genuinely interesting and likable characters. The book may be hard to find -- as it was only published in 1995, and once more in 1996 -- but definitely worth the trouble, being close-to the funniest author I've had the pleasure of reading. - [[User:Quoth|Quoth]]

* {{wp|James_Bibby|James Bibby}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|S.G. Browne|S.G. Browne}}==
S.G. Browne (Scott Browne) is an American author of blackly comic novels. So far there are ten of them, and a recurring theme is Zombies. Not the shambling revenants of fiction and film. Browne's vision is more rounded and bleakly funny than that. his debut novel ''Breathers: A Zombie's Lament'' deals with those unfortuante souls in the USA who are fated to return to worldly existence, occupying the bodies they thought they had left behind, in the modern USA. Browne begins with the idea that there are only two ways a Zombie can go after undeath kicks in. they can become homeless derilects - who really looks at a homeless person on the street? They are guaranteed invisibility. Or else they can live in California. Even then the Resurrected face hostility, persecution and lack of understanding from the Breathers - normal living people. Andy Warner is one such. He got up and staggered away from the car crash that killed his wife only to discover the awful truth - he was now part of a despised underclass perceived as fair game for sadistic cruelty and denied civil rights. He even joins a mutual support group for the Undead, presided over by a naive idealist who was killed trying to resolve a marital disagreement between two of her therapy patients. Most of the zombies who attend agree that they only attend because they feel sorry for Helen. They are resigned to a life of slowly disintegrating and falling into rotten decay, as well as avoiding drunken frat members who have seen "Dawn of the Dead" once too often. Andy decides to become an Undead Rights activist. And then they meet Ray, who introduces them to the miracle food, which he describes as "venison"... Recommended by [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]])

* {{wp|S.G. Browne|S.G. Browne}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Susanna Clarke|Susanna Clarke}}==
The author(ess?) of ''Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell''. This is an enormous book, written as an alternate history set in 19th-century England around the time of the Napoleonic Wars. It is based on the premise that magic once existed in England and has returned with two men: Gilbert Norrell and Jonathan Strange. Centering on the relationship between these two men, the novel investigates the nature of "Englishness" and the boundary between reason and madness. It has been described as a fantasy novel, an alternate history, and an historical novel. The narrative draws on various Romantic literary traditions, such as the comedy of manners, the Gothic tale, and the Byronic hero. The novel's language is a pastiche of 19th-century writing styles, such as those of Jane Austen and Charles Dickens. Clarke describes the supernatural with mundane details. Neil Gaiman, no less, described it as "unquestionably the finest English novel of the fantastic written in the last 70 years". Look it up on Wikipedia - the way Bloomsbury pushed its publication is jaw-dropping - and even more so when you know it was her first novel! Recommended by --[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 18:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

* {{wp|Susanna_Clarke|Susanna Clarke}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Eoin Colfer|Eoin Colfer}}==
Eoin (pronounced "Owen") Colfer has come up with another world not too dissimilar to ours, but this time it's our world as we know it interfacing with the world of the Lower Elements: fairies, trolls (even thicker than TP's!), goblins, dwarves and the like. It even has a reason why the word Leprechaun exists: it comes from LEP Recon – the reconnaissance and recovery side of the Lower Elements Police. They are nominally childrens' books, but none the worse for that. So, essentially, is ''The Hobbit'' (see also comments for Diana Wynne Jones). The books centre around one "Artemis Fowl" - a twelve-year-old criminal mastermind. Swallow that, and the books are delightful. There is a large dollop of Pratchett-esque humour: witness why dwarves are such good diggers!!!! --[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 18:57, 25 July 2007 (CEST)

'''Breaking News:''' Eoin Colfer has been selected to complete a largely unstarted sixth volume of [[Douglas Adams]]' h2g2 series:-
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/sep/17/douglasadams] The resultant book has now been released under the title of '''''And Another Thing....''''' I'm reading it. It's good! --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 09:04, 16 October 2009 (UTC).

He's pretty darn good. And the Artemis Fowl timeline is essentially a budget version of the Disc's: as convoluted as you can make it in seven books. --[[User:Dragon4|Dragon4]] ([[User talk:Dragon4|talk]]) 21:16, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

* {{wp|Eoin_Colfer|Eoin Colfer}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Edward Conlon|Edward Conlon}}==
Written in 2004, Conlon's autobiography '''Blue Blood''' came too late for it to have directly influenced most of the Watch books. Conlon is the third generation of his family to have served in the New York Police Department, following his grandfather and father. In 560 pages, he relates many accounts of the events likely to happen to an NYPD patrolman in the course of his duties. These can be horrifying, amusing, or just plain weird by turns. Many of them, such as the possibly rabid domestic cat that could make [[Greebo]] look like a placid neuteree, could have been scripted for the Watch to deal with. The everyday frustrations of police work, such as the bureaucracy, the chore of report-writing, political interference from above, and the personality types of his fellow cops, could all be background for a Watch novel. Among many other little details of police life, conlon also has an interesting take on the whole grey area between legitimate "perks" and outright bribe-taking. He also describes his grandfather with love and affection, a beat cop who Fred Colon would have hailed as a long-lost brother. Conlon does for the NYPD what Joseph Wambaugh (a known influence on the Watch) does for the LAPD on the other coast. Recommended by [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 15:10, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

* {{wp|Edward Conlon|Edward Conlon}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Lindsey|Lindsey Davis}}==

Author of a very funny and at the same time extremely erudite series set in the Ancient Rome of Vespasian, about an informer (something like a private detective) by the name of Marcus Didius Falco, an Aventine guttersnipe who, having fallen in love with a senator's daughter, the spirited, independent-minded Helena, sets out to better himself socially and financially. Ms Davis takes a light-and-dark, and entertainingly cynical, approach to the seedy realities of day-to-day life and politics in Vespasian's Rome, and has Marcus and Helena involved in a string of mysteries as they accept jobs from everyone from jealous spouses to the emperor himself. A spin-off series is set in a slightly later time when Falco has prudently retired from investigating, citing a need to stay away from the attentions of a paranoid and despotic new Emperor who he investigated when he was merely a Prince, and has incriminating evidence against. The focus of the series now moves to his adopted daughter Flavia Albia, who has learnt well from her father and become a private detective herself. Very well written and highly addictive.

* {{wp|Lindsey|Lindsey Davis}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Diane Duane|Diane Duane }}==
Again, another writer of YA books, but very ''very'' good ones. Her {{wp|Young Wizards|''Young Wizards''}} series, starting off with "So You Want to be a Wizard", explores what ''really'' happens when you sign up to be a wizard, eg: travelling to alternate dimensions with friendly, ''sentient'' micro-stars, inviting alien foreign exchange students to stay the planet, and helping whales perform ancient rituals underneath the sea to prevent the earth from cracking like an egg. I could go on, but I think a quote from TVTropes sums up the series perfectly: "Infamous in its fandom for a tendency to grab you by the heart and squeeze" --[[User:Varriount|Varriount]]

* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Duane Diane Duane] on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Jasper Fforde|Jasper Fforde}}==
Author of the Thursday Next books which started with ''The Eyre Affair.''

Perhaps the closest thing to the Pratchett theme of story-driven reality, but start with ''The Eyre Affair''; we were pretty disappointed with ''Something Rotten'' at our house.--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]]
:I'll go with that - ''Something Rotten'' was pretty rotten, but the four '''Thursday Next''' books are excellent. --[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 18:57, 25 July 2007 (CEST)

Fforde is very apt at twisting the narrative conventions, and his humour is very Pratchett-like indeed. I also recommend the Nursery Rhyme series, starting with The ''Big Over Easy'', starring Marlowe-like detective Jack Spratt. --Abie, 25 May 2010.

His books are very good: The Last Dragonslayer books are hilarious, and the first one especially has quite a clever premise. One of his latest books had a review along the lines of 'Watch out Terry Pratchett,' on it, so that should give you some idea...--[[User:AnnieBudgie|AnnieBudgie]] ([[User talk:AnnieBudgie|talk]]) 11:21, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, the [[Terry Pratchett|Creator]] himself said of ''The Eyre Affair'': "Ingenious. I shall watch Jasper Fforde nervously."

* {{wp|Jasper_Fforde|Jasper Fforde}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|George MacDonald Fraser|George MacDonald Fraser}}==
Fraser was cited by Terry Pratchett as one of five authors whose books he would buy immediately on publication. His best-known works are the ''Flashman'' series (the cowardly but lucky Harry Flashman has many points of similarity with Rincewind) and the [[Daft Wullie|''McAuslan'']] series (whose Gordon Highlanders are [[Book:The Wee Free Men/Annotations|Roundworld Nac Mac Feegle]].) Fraser's books are usually scrupulously accurate history with a few fictitious characters inserted, and include copious footnotes and endnotes.

While the accepted Discworld referent for Flashman is usually taken to be Rincewind, Flashman is also a bluff, genial, con-man whose whole life is predicated on persuading people to accept he is something he is not. He pulls some almightily audacious bluffs in his career, and on one occasion, his wholly reasonable tendency towards self-preservation (which could uncharitably be described as cowardice) is subverted by a chemical substance which his lover of the moment assures him is a nice relaxing tonic. This enables him to fight and lead a battle without any fear at all and in fact to avert a Russian invasion of India whilst British attention is focused on the Crimea. A similar thing happens to Moist von Lipwig in {{RS}}...

* {{wp|George MacDonald Fraser|George MacDonald Fraser}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Neil Gaiman|Neil Gaiman}}==
Co-author of {{GO}}, so an easy choice. Pratchett fans seem to prefer ''Neverwhere'' and ''American Gods''. One of the latest novels is ''Anansi Boys''. {{wp|Neil_Gaiman|Gaiman}} is known for his ability to create fascinating pantheons - if you're at all interested in comics, the ''Sandman'' series (which rightfully catapulted Gaiman to the fame he enjoys today) is one of the best ever written. His perky-goth Death is the best anyone's ever done with the character after Pratchett.
Terry himself says that his novel, ''Coraline'', "...has the delicate horror of the finest fairy tales, and is a masterpiece."

Neil was a founder-member of the [[H.P. Lovecraft Holiday Fun Club]].

Recommended by [[User:Sanity|Sanity]].

* {{wp|Neil_Gaiman|Neil Gaiman}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Craig Shaw Gardner|Craig Shaw Gardner}}==
''Ebenezum'' and ''Wuntvor'' series are quite humorous, though the latter tends to drag a bit.

* {{wp|Craig_Shaw_Gardner|Craig Shaw Gardner}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Mary Gentle|Mary Gentle}}==
Mary Gentle's masterwork ''Ash: A Secret History'' must be recommended here as one of those books that lingers in the mind and fires neurons into new and different arrangements. There is certainly humour here: most obviously in the Rabelaisian adventures of a mediaeval mercenary company, hiring itself out to the highest bidder and finding laughter where it can in, a mediaeval landscape straight out of ''Monty Python and the Holy Grail''. There is also a deeper, rather black, humour of a more satirical kind, as the book deals with deeper and more profound issues of time and history and the way we perceive the passage of both. There are two interleaved stories here: one deals with the adventures of the mercenary company of the Lion, commanded by the warrior-woman Ash. The second story takes place in our own time, and deals with a historian trying to make sense of the legend of Ash, who starts to discover that the historical certainties of the past are slipping and changing around him wherever he looks. There can only be ''one'' past, right? Dead wrong. His suspicions are confirmed when archaeologist colleagues start to unearth artefacts relating to a past that by all rights should never have happened, and which start to prove the established history books are utterly dead wrong.

History is changing. All the indications point to the trigger point being somewhere in the late 1400's and somehow, Ash the warrior captain is intimately involved. Something happened in or around the year 1476 to completely alter the course of history - and belatedly, the late 1990's are changing to conform to that time-rift. The sequence of events in the late 1400's very nearly destroyed the world and ''something'' moved to correct it, to rewrite history into the form in which we knew it. Until the history professor started looking into the life of Ash and pulling together the random shreds that remained, out of place and time, of that secret history...

As well as being a thrilling fantasy/sci-fi adventure, Ash is also a satire on the practice and teaching of history, which (as Vetinari and the History Monks know) is neither fixed nor objective. Indeed, it offers insight into how the History Monks might operate, were they to exist on Roundworld, to restitch time and history after, say, a Sourcerer or a Glass Clock nearly blew it into smithereens. It vividly describes what people might notice, what would be observed, during a time-slip of this nature, and what loose ends would be left flapping afterwards that not even a Lu-Tze could tidy away. It even suggests a mechanism, which has to do with pyramids, and suggests that some VERY strange things happened in the latter 1400's in known history that are strange and anomalous...

Did TP read this book before, say, writing {{TOT}}? Ash was published in 1999, ten years after TP wrote {{S}}, but definitely released before {{TOT}} (published 2001). It's a very tempting thought... oh, and there are golems in this book. Like and unlike to those of the Discworld.

In a far lighter vein, Mary Gentle has also written '''''Grunts!''''', an account of the Eternal War between Good and Evil, as seen through the jaundiced eyes of those expendable foot-soldiers of the dark and sword-fodder for Heroes, the Orcs. Both repulsive and oddly sympathetic at the same time, the Orcs discover a trans-dimensional dragon whose hoard includes an entire United States Marine Corps armoury.

Equipped with high-tech weapons, the Orcs then see about carving out a corner of the fantasy world they can call theirs.

As Mary Gentle, along with Neil Gaiman, is a founder-member of the [[H.P. Lovecraft Holiday Fun Club]] to whom an early Discworld novel is dedicated (the HPLHFC consists of members of the new wave of British sci-fi/fantasy authors), then it would appear reasonably certain that TP is aware of her books. There are fairly unmistakable references to '''''Grunts''''' in the pages of {{UA}}, which given the subject matter would be even more remarkable by their absence.

Much recommended!

Both books recommended by [[User:AgProv|AgProv]].

* {{wp|Mary Gentle|Mary Gentle}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Alan Gordon|Alan Gordon}}==
Alan Gordon (born 1959) is the author of several mysteries, the first of which is based on the characters from William Shakespeare's '''''Twelfth Night'''''. He writes about jesters as advisers to the king, who actually make up a super-secret spy ring that try to keep peace and control the leaders of different countries. The Fool's Guild of these novels is portrayed as a mockery to the church, and they refer to Jesus Christ as "Their Saviour, the First Fool".

Alan Gordon began writing his novels about fools and jesters as a supra-national spy ring in 1999. This is exactly the same idea TP came up with a year or two earlier to explain the survival of the otherwise increasingly irrelevant Fools' and Clowns' Guild into the modern era - that the Guild's graduates go everywhere, end up in some very high places, and periodically report back to Doctor Whiteface. Making him both very rich and very powerful.

Is it possible AG got the basic idea for his seven Fools' Guild novels from Pratchett? I hope to track down at least one Alan Gordon novel today, read it, and report back here, as the similarities to Pratchett's Fools' Guild are just so obvious...

Just finished reading ''A Death in the Venetian Quarter'', about Byzantine plots in old Constantinople. The jokes are funnier - although in some places have a desperate Prachettian cod-mediaeval ring to them - the jesters, Fools and troubadours (ref ({{TLH}}) are happier and enjoy their vocation, and there is a Guild HQ which assigns both surface tasks (''"you are to proceed to Constantinople where you will be resident Fool to the Empress and the Princesses of the royal house of Byzantium"'') and hidden, clandestine, ones (''"while you are there you will assist and take a leading role in deposing the current Emperor, who is a drooling inbred dolt and not the man we need to keep out the Pope's crusaders on one side and the Turks on the other"'').

Fools serve both leaders in a war and can cross the lines freely to interchange information and updates, as well as acting as informal diplomats and heralds. This was apparently so in mediaeval times, as most people didn't take them seriously. (In Gordon's world, they also have useful Assassin skills, although outside the world of [[sloshi]], Lord Downey might have a demarcation issue with Doctor Whiteface.)

Reccomended!

* {{wp|Alan Gordon|Alan Gordon}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Michael Green|Michael Green}}==
While perhaps a little bit dated now, Mike Green's series of comic "how-not-to-do-it" guides, dating from the 1950's and 1960's, are masterpieces of a certain sort of British humour. The ''Art of Coarse...'' books are based on the premise that only a precious few, a stellar minority, of us can ever be genuinely good and gifted at any given sporting or leisure pursuit. The rest of us... well, we are fated to be only Coarse practitioners, spear-carriers and extras in the theatre of life. Green illustrates this fact of essential glorious mediocrity over a series of books, dealing with topics as wide and varied as rugby football, sailing, golf, sex, and amateur dramatics. A Coarse Sailor is defined as one who, in extremis, forgets all nautical language, and shouts "For God's sake, turn left!" ''The Art of Coarse Acting'' develops the theme of am-dram in a manner that Vittoler's strolling players would recognise, and indeed there is a lengthy discourse on why Shakespeare's clowns and fools are so abjectly unfunny, ''however'' you say the lines. This may be familar to readers of Pratchett, although there is no certainty that he has read these books. I would not be surprised, though! A cast of recurring characters, including Green's totally loathsome friend Askew, help carry the stories, all drawn from his real-life experience. (Although Green was better at rugby than he claims - he turned out, if only once, for the Leicester first fifteen, which is akin to playing for a premiership soccer side.) The series was continued by Spike Jones, although his books are nowhere near as good as Green's.

* {{wp|Michael_Green|Michael Green}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Simon R. Green|Simon R. Green}}==
For something a little darker, try the ''Nightside'' series by Simon R. Green. Imagine Neil Gaiman's ''Neverwhere'' tossed in a blender with the noir detective template and every bit of myth, fantasy and sci-fi you 've ever seen or read and you'll get the delicious smoothie that is Nightside. Set in a secret city-within-a-city at the heart of London, follow John Taylor, a hard-nose private-eye as he sorts out cases both horrifying and fantastic.

Green's definitely a name-dropper, and references tons of stories and myths, but his own characters and plots are original and fascinating, and utterly steeped in darkness. (Seriously... This guy's darker than Neil gets sometimes...) But it's all tied together with subtle English wit in the (almost obligatory to the noir genre) first-person narrative. (I've even heard a review with a favorable comparison to Terry, so there! Proof!) It's at least an M rating, but a heartily recommended read.

* {{wp|Simon_R._Green|Simon R. Green}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Harry Harrison|Harry Harrison}}==
Prodigious author of science-fiction, ranging from potboilers through more "serious" exploratory sci-fi works and counterfactual histories, to out-and-out science-fiction humour.
Anyone who perceived the slightly tongue-in-cheek aspect of '''''Strata''''' and '''''Dark Side of the Sun''''' will appreciate the parodic quality of Harrison's '''''Bill, the Galactic Hero''''' series of comic sci-fi novels. These send up every aspect of the classic gung-ho shoot 'em up space operas, in which, generally, American domestic paranoia about those goddamn Commies was projected out into space and time, and gave all-American heroes the chance to stand and fight for those good ol' fashioned values and Mom's apple pie. (Is it a matter of time before the space enemy starts to manifest recognisable aspects of Middle Eastern culture?)

Harrison's funniest sci-fi comedies by far, though, are the nine or ten books of the '''''Stainless Steel Rat''''' series. In a future that has largely eliminated crime, Jim diGriz is one of the last crooks left in the galaxy. While he is not averse to the occasional bank robbery, he prefers other, largely non-confrontational and consensual, methods of separating people from their money. He is principled and ethical enough to absolutely refuse to kill in the line of business, and has a ball as he travels the galaxy, bilking, bunco-ing, cheating and generally con-man-ning in a thousand inventive ways. But one day he comes a cropper and is offered the choice of (i) having his mind re-programmed to remove all criminal tendencies; or (ii) working on the side of the angels, as a member of the Galactic "Special Corps", an elite unit of part-detectives, part-policemen, part special agents. Choosing to accept his Angel, in the form of the Machiavellian Special corps Director Inskipp, diGriz bites the bullet and reluctantly becomes poacher-turned-gamekeeper. His first assignment is to track down and arrest the beautiful and deadly Angelina, a woman with serious anger management issues and strong criminal tendencies. He does this so well they end up married, and adopt the nicknames of "Slippery Jim" and "Spike" for each other. (Do the descriptions remind you of anyone in the Pratchett character list?) Later books chart a marriage made in larcenous heaven, and the birth of twin sons who take after Mum and Dad...

''The Stainless Steel Rat For President'' relates a tale of DiGriz and his family collaborating to fix the elections on a repressive planet ruled by a tyrant and dictator. The most rigged, bent and skewed election in the Universe then ensues, with both parties doing what they can to gerrymander, fix and fiddle the vote. A real lesson, as these things have all apparently been done in Roundworld elections... this was especially prescient of Harrison, as the electronic vote-counting machinery is rigged to the point of falling over. And this was written a ''long'' time before a certain business in Florida...
Recommended by [[User:AgProv|AgProv]].

* {{wp|Harry_Harrison|Harry Harrison}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Robert Shea|Robert Shea}} and {{wp|Robert Anton Wilson|Robert Anton Wilson}} (Honorary #23)==
A cautionary note: Shea and Wilson are rightly famed, in alternative circles, for the '''''Illuminatus!''''' series of novels. The trilogy is a joyously anarchic and irreverent romp through the whole scope of the occult, politics, conspiracy theory, secret societies, not-so-secret societies, et c, and sends up many genres of writing including the police procedural, horror, fantasy, political polemic (Ayn Rand gets a kicking), et c.

The novice approaching ''Illuminatus!'' for the first time should not try to understand what's going on, as that way lieth doom. It's like trying to appreciate opera ''and'' understand the lyrics. On a first read, just see it as a series of loosely connected episodes but don't try too hard to comprehend the relationship between them. Just accept as a unifying theme that unless something is done to stop it, the Eschaton is about to be Immanetized (ie, the world is about to end in a manner loosely reminiscent of {{GO}}. Hell, there's even a [[Kraken|Leviathan]] as well as some unpretty denizens of Earth's [[Dungeon Dimensions]]).

You get characters like the cynical street policeman who's seen too much; the hippies who really ARE about to be made streetwise (man) whether they want to be or not; the occupants of a submarine (which for some reason is painted bright yellow), whose mission is to prevent a war starting -initially out of a dispute over ownership of a [[Leshp|small, hitherto unregarded, island]]; the arch-villain Putney Drake, who controls all crime in the USA but has decided he wants to find his angel and go straight; the arch-manipulator Hagbard Celine who saves the world but has an agenda all of his own; 0023, the secret agent Britain is not proud of, and who gets all the weird X-files-like assignments that Bond sneers at; and a cast of eldrich supernatural entities, who are partly or wholly not human. Oh, and there are lots of Justified, Illuminated and Elucidated secret societies, with their own passwords and doorway ritual, administered by Brother Gatekeepers...

(As an aside. Flawed criminal mastermind Putney ''Drake'', who controls all organised crime in the USA but still wants more. Compare to Eoin Colfer's Artemis ''Fowl''?)

James Joyce is referenced many times and indeed even enters the book as a character at one point. This has to be said, as the structure of the book owes something to Joyce, the episodes stepping in and out of linear time and causal order. Therefore it's not an easy book to read but it rewards time, attention and frequent re-reading.

It's also very, very, funny.

I can guarantee you will never see the Reverend Billy Graham in quite the same light again after the manner of his cameo appearance! (Indeed, if the book has any conventional political stance, it can be discerned by the way the Republican/Religious Right Middle-American world-view is remorselessly sent up).

Slipping in under the radar, and done with humour, is a lot of interesting philosophical stuff. For instance, what is the nature of money? (Ref. {{MM}}). We blithely refer to political affiliation as being left-wing, right-wing, anarchist, communist, et c, but what do these convenient labels ''really'' mean? Does the conspiracy theory or the cock-up theory govern human history, or a mixture of both, and at bottom is there really a difference? What is conspiracy theory? Do you have to be paranoid to believe it exists? Is there any validity to magic, occult, and psychic thought and practice? Can one Leader really exert a difference? What is the mystical all-importance of the number 23, and all its associations, like the letter "W"? Did the events of ''The Lord of the Rings'' really happen, making Tolkien not so much an author as an observer?

This trilogy is believed to have influenced Terry Pratchett - there are just too many allusions and associations in the Discworld books. Recommended!

Shea and Wilson went on to write a second trilogy, '''''The Universe Next Door''''', that develops Illuminatus themes and ideas while being true to the original. This deals a lot with quantum physics and the multiple-worlds model of the multiverse, whilst remaining extremely funny.

Possibly far more accessible as novels, while still being in the spirit of ''Illuminatus!'', are the books Shea and Wilson wrote solo: '''''The Historical Illuminatus''''' trilogy, by Wilson, charts the life of Neapolitan wunderkind Sigismundo Celine in the latter part of the eighteenth century. There's sound history, intriguing discussions on the origins of Freemasonry, the decline of Catholicism, the Occult underground in Europe, why revolutions happen (lilac may or may not be included), and the ''true'' nature of scholarly footnotes at the bottom of the page. (they're a separate rogue novel, a kind of parasitic literary form trying to break into the reality of the main text) A jolly good story with believable characters, not without humour. Sigismundo Celine even invents a theoretically working steam locomotive - but evidently Naples and Paris are not the right orchards for this idea to blossom into steam-engine time, as he is derided and laughed out of university, much to his chagrin.

Shea wrote a series of novels where the themes of Illuminatus! are further explored, where West met East in the mediaeval crusades and the western world suddenly became too small for old orthodoxies. (''All Things Are Lights'' and ''Saracen!''). In a second series, the underlying themes of ''Illuminatus!'' are seen through the eyes and experiences of a Zen warrior-monk, in what on the surface of things is nothing more than a rip-roaring adventure story set in mediaeval Japan and Kublai Khan's China. ( ''Shiké: Last of the Zinja'' and ''Shiké: Last of the Dragons'')

Sadly, both authors are now deceased, having left their respective solo works unfinished, and their central characters hanging in limbo. (Although Robert Shea has placed many of his writings on his website, including completed and partially completed novels, so that they may be accessed for free). But - worth reading! Recommended by [[User:AgProv|AgProv]].

* {{wp|Robert Anton Wilson|Robert Anton Wilson}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Reginald Hill|Reginald Hill}}==
Author of some very funny police procedurals, the Dalziel and Pascoe series (these have been adapted for TV), and the more humour-based adventures of Luton PI Joe Sixsmith. In an internet interview, Hill has identified Terry as one of his favourite authors. His novels are set in the real world, although there are occasional touches of the supernatural in the Dalziel and Pascoe books. Hill's stories can be odd (Jane Austen's ''Emma'' rewritten as a murder thriller, anyone?), but are always satisfying. A good place to start is probably the Dalziel and Pascoe book ''Dialogues of the Dead'' and its direct sequel ''Death's Jest-Book'', or the Joe Sixsmith novel ''The Roar of the Butterflies'', which pays tribute to P.G Wodehouse.

* {{wp|Reginald Hill|Reginald Hill}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Tom Holt|Tom Holt}}==
Author of various parodies and stories based on mythology or other tales (sound familiar).
First novel based on Wagner's ''Der Ring des Nibelungen'' is called ''Expecting Someone Taller''. Although most books are standalone, there is a series of sorts starting with ''The Portable Door'', which can arguably be termed a more adult and crankier Harry Potter in a cubicle farm.

Holt's books combine what might otherwise be called ''chick-lit'' from the male point of view - there is invariably a romance between a man and a woman who almost completely fail to communicate nor see the subtleties of the other gender's form of world-view - made even more complex by the intrusion of magic and the supernatural. The paradoxes of using magic are dealt with at great length, as are the staples of fantasy fiction and folklore. Old pantheons of Gods who nobody seriously believes in any more are shunted off to a ''very special'' old peoples' home on the south coast of England. They proceed to have ''Last of the Summer Wine'' style adventures involving lash-up machinery and half-remembered magical artefacts. ''You don't have to be evil to work here, but it helps'' develops the theme of Hell being a Human Resources department full of management bollocks-speak and continual assessments with Health and Safety Law making it impossible to go out and slay dragons. A very tall dwarf and a very short giant feature as characters...

* {{wp|Tom_Holt|Tom Holt}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Nick Hornby|Nick Hornby}}==
To be more specific; for the non-British reader to better understand {{UA}} and the importance of football the autobiographical ''Fever Pitch'' is a must read. Written by a left-leaning intellectual well versed in feminist theory who to the amazement of his peers spent much of his formative years on Highbury's North Bank.

This specific recommendation by [[User:Iron Hippo|Iron Hippo]] 20:13, 23 October 2009 (UTC), and backed by --[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 20:08, 8 November 2009 (UTC). It's a fantastically funny and searingly true book, but don't bother reading any of his others. Nanny Ogg's got a word for them. And it's not complimentary.

* {{wp|Nick Hornby|Nick Hornby}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Tanya Huff|Tanya Huff}}==
The Keeper's Chronicles are a set of three (so far) books taking place in Canada, a sort of urban fantasy-comedy. More overt than Discworld but a lot of fun.

* {{wp|Tanya_Huff|Tanya Huff}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Barry Hughart|Barry Hughart}}==
''Bridge of Birds'' - "A Novel of an Ancient China That Never Was."

Li Kao is a great scholar with a slight flaw in his character. His patron and servant, by turns, is Number Ten Ox, a peasant lad of unusual size and strength and more wit than anyone expects. The two engage in fantastic adventures in a version of Seventh-Century China unknown to historians. Annotators might find more amusement than even Pratchett provides (if they are serious students of Chinese history) trying to separate the research from the imagination.

The similarity between Li Kao and another wrinkly little old man with unusual powers will strike most Pratchett readers. Don't tell the British press; they'll be off to Arizona to pester Mr. Hughart for his reaction to the outrageous plagiarism (again.)

The series continues with ''Eight Skilled Gentlemen'' and ''The Story of the Stone'', but these are rare and expensive.

* {{wp|Barry_Hughart|Barry Hughart}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Diana Wynne Jones|Diana Wynne Jones}}==
The books are intended for a younger audience but I (and other Pratchett fans with the Tiffany Aching series) have often found so-called children's books to be extremely well written, often more so than their adult counterparts. One of the major themes in her books is the "multiverse" theory--explored in Pratchett as Quantum and [[Trousers of Time|The Trousers of Time]]. She has a fairly extensive bibliography; I would recommend starting with "Deep Secret" (written in a psuedo-epistolary style) or "Charmed Life" (in The Chronicles of Chrestomanci, Vol 1). "Charmed Life" has a more Tiffany Aching-esque feel to it. --[[User:Anatwork|Anatwork]] 05:27, 2 April 2007 (CEST).

Diana Wynne Jones's ''The Tough Guide to Fantasyland'' is recommended by Terry, and includes many Discworld themes, such as swords, lost heirs, and Cities of Wizards. [[User:Marmosetpower|Marmosetpower]] 14:55, 7 November 2011 (CET)

Wynne Jones also wrote ''Howl's Moving Castle'' and its sequel, and its hard to beat for a story with wit and excitement and in which the characters understand perfectly how the fairytale world they inhabit is ruled by narrative imperative. The Studio Ghibli film is also great, but very different. - [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 13:00, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

* {{wp|Diana_Wynne_Jones|Diana Wynne Jones}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Stuart M. Kaminsky|Stuart M. Kaminsky}}==
This Russian-American author wrote a series of police procedurals with a difference. Set in the Soviet Union in the 1980's, Inspector Rostnikov is a veteran policeman in the Moscow criminal investigation force. A decent and honest copper who strives very hard to stay out of politics and just do the job that's in front of him, he contends with the everyday criminality of Moscow and fending off his out-of-touch superiors whose priorities are not his and who view his efficiency as a copper with deep suspicion. Rostnikov does not believe in the approved Leninist-Marxist doctrine that criminality in the Soviet state is perpetrated by a rump of degenerate anti-social elements, who will wither away as the Revolution triumphs and there is thus no more need for crime. He's a copper. He knows there will always be crime regardless of whose social philosophy runs the State. He just gets on with it, alongside a department of underfunded, under-resourced, coppers whose attitudes range form resigned cynicism through open-eyed idealism to a sort of robotic, golem-like obedience to the State. Indeed, his most trusted colleagues are the enthusiastic youngster Sasha and the robotic Party loyalist Karpo. The collapsing years of the Soviet Union act as the backdrop to the stories, a situation where hardly anyone truly believes in communism any more, the old political truths are repated almost as a comforting mantra, everyone can see the corruption and collapse going on all around them, but nobody, apart from political dissidents, dares to say so outright. Unfortunately the police chief known as The Wolfhound is a True Believer, and behind him is the wider KGB/MVD apparatus to which the civil police is accountable. The smoke and mirrors of the USSR's last years and the trials of routine policing in this atmosphere are drawn with a great deal of black humour. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 10:24, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

* {{wp|Stuart_M_Kaminsky|Stuart M. Kaminsky}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Fritz Leiber|Fritz Leiber}}==
Classic sword & sorcery, but very often kind of tongue-in-cheek. TP has admitted that his early Discworld books, which can be seen as a parody of the S&S genre, were heavily inspired by Leiber's series about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. --[[User:Havelock|Havelock]] 02:20, 1 April 2007 (CEST)

In fact, the principal city of the ''Fafhrd and Gray Mouser'' stories is named "Lankhmar", which is very similar to that of [[Ankh-Morpork]], and seems to share its social complexity.

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Leiber Fritz Leiber] on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Stanislaw Lem|Stanislaw Lem}}==
Stanislaw Lem is a Polish writer of science fiction, some of which is very funny and whimsical. He has been lucky with English translations that capture the spirit of the original, and try to keep up with the word play. '''''[[Wikipedia:The_Cyberiad|Cyberiad]]''''' is a great place to start; it's a series of stories about the robot inventors Trurl and Klapaucius. Great illustrations by Daniel Mróz, too! Oh, and if you saw the George Clooney film version of Lem's great novel Solaris and that turned you off, just ignore it: see the original Russian film version instead.

* {{wp|Stanislaw Lem|Stanislaw Lem}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Roy Lewis|Roy Lewis}}==
Another suggestion from Terry Pratchett himself: he brought '''''The Evolution Man''''' to a British television show-and-tell as a book he wished he'd written. He said he'd read it in 1961 when it was nearly new and the influence on the thirteen-year-old writer is apparent. 
The book describes a family of "ape-men" who are responsible for most of the social and technological development of the paleolithic era over one generation, somewhat like {{wp|Jean_Auel|Jean Auel's}} Cro-Magnons in ''Clan of the Cave Bear'' but lots funnier. It has also been published as ''What We Did to Father'' and ''Once Upon an Ice Age''. Recently republished in the US by Vintage Books.

* {{wp|Roy_Lewis|Roy Lewis}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Dan McGirt|Dan McGirt}}==
{{wp|Jason_Cosmo|Jason Comso}} series, a tongue-in-cheek approach to swords and sorcery.

* {{wp|Dan_McGirt|Dan McGirt}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Michael Moorcock|Michael Moorcock}}==
Another author spoofed by Terry Pratchett ({{COM}}, {{E}}) and worth reading in his own right.

Known in his early writing years for prolific production of potboilers - the Elric series are well worth reading as "straight", if high-camp, fantasy fiction and provide a lot of background detail, as to where some of the jokes in the earliest Discworld novels originate.

Moorcock has tried his hand at farce and comic writing in the Pratchett mould: a novel called '''''The Chinese Agent''''', about a chaotic collision and an escalating series of misunderstandings between the world's secret services operating in London, is laugh-out-loud funny reading, with echoes of {{GO}}.

Similarly, there is a short story called ''The Stone Thing (A Tale of Strange Parts)'' in the anthology '''''The Flying Sorcerers''''' (Souvenir Press, 1997) where Moorcock attempts to take the mickey out of his own portentous high-camp style of writing, before anyone else does.--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 17:02, 9 May 2007 (CEST). This anthology also features a Terry Pratchett short story called '''''Turntables of the Night'''''. Recommended by [[User:AgProv|AgProv]].

Also worth reading is the Von Bek series, beginning with ''The Warhound and the World's Pain'', and the Dancers at the End of Time series, which begins with ''An Alien Heat'', and is full of Oscar Wilde-esque humour. Both of these series are available in omnibus editions.

* {{wp|Michael_Moorcock|Michael Moorcock}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Christopher Moore|Christopher Moore}}==
Hilariously funny novels, which while not exactly fantasy or science fiction have elements of both. Vampires, demons, cargo cults. Death turns up as well, although it's more of a Tooth Fairy-esque franchise than a single anthropomorphic personification. It's probably best to read them in publication order, as recurring characters develop over the novels. Start with ''{{wp|Practical_Demonkeeping|Practical Demonkeeping}}'', for an introduction to the barely sane inhabitants of Pine Cove.

* {{wp|Christopher_Moore_%28author%29|Christopher Moore}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|John Moore|John Moore}}==
Small but sweet novels set in a sort of alternate, anachronistic fairy-tale past. Humorous fantasy but with a definite American touch (a la Shrek). Whimsical, but with serious undertones.

* {{wp|John Moore (American author)|John Moore}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Kim Newman|Kim Newman}}==
A founder member of the [[H.P. Lovecraft Holiday Fun Club]], Kim wrote '''Anno Dracula''', the definitive "what if..." book, starting from the utter failure of van Helsing and his well-intended dreamers to destroy Count Dracula. This irritating little diversion dealt with, Dracula then resumes his trip to England, and introduces himself at Court as a member of very long-standing Rumanian royal dynasty. Which is true, to a given value of true. Queen Victoria then invites her relative - well, he's European royalty, he ''must'' be related - to come and stay at Buck House, or Sandringham, maybe Balmoral, or the one on the Isle of Wight. Having been invited into the palace, Dracula, like a certain vampire noble in {{CJ}}, stays. And stays. And takes over England. And by extension the British Empire. (Does this sound like a certain Pratchett book yet?). He even marries the royal widow and becomes King-Emperor. Then invites the family over from Transylvania. The idea if a vampire dynasty ruling Britain, the degree of acceptance/rebellion it engenders, and how Dracula dealt with threats to British world rule, is continued in the following novels of the trilogy. .--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]]
* {{wp|Kim Newman|Kim Newman}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Naomi Novik|Naomi Novik}}==
A fantasy dragon-story, set in the original 17th century Roundworld! The story isn't as funny as a Discworld novel, but Temeraire's dialogue (the dragon in question) can be very tongue-in-cheek! Could be a bit girlish book, but then again, you can very well be one! .--[[User:Charlie007|Charlie007]]

* {{wp|Naomi_Novik|Naomi Novik}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Pat O'Shea|Pat O'Shea}}==
Although her book {{wp|The_Hounds_of_the_Morrigan|'''''The Hounds of the Morrigan'''''}} is aimed at children, like the best children's writers she creates a world which may also be inhabited by adults without their losing face. Set in West Galway, two children come to realise that despite St Patrick's best efforts, the old Irish gods and goddesses never went away. They just went ''over there a wee bit''.

The return of the Old Gods to modern (1970's?) Ireland has its threat: the Goddess who has awoken is the old and evil Morrigan, the triple-goddess of death and chaos and nightmare. She must be stopped...

O'Shea blends the ancient tales into a modern Irish landscape with deftness and humour. The children enter the ''other'' Ireland of myth and fable, and while at its worst the humour takes on a Disney-Oirish cuteness, the colour and texture of the book slowly darken into a mythological landscape Neil Gaiman would be proud of (not without humour). Recommended. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 23:15, 25 July 2007 (CEST)

* {{wp|Pat_O'Shea|Pat O'Shea}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Mervyn Peake|Mervyn Peake}}==
Have you ever wondered about the description of Lancre Castle, in the early pages of {{WS}}, as ''having been designed by an architect who'd heard about Ghormenghast, but had done the best he can despite having neither the budget nor the space?'' Or about the description of the way time and space do weird things in the precincts of Unseen University, with the effect that ''it makes Ghormenghast look like a toolshed on a railway allotment?''

Well, Peake is the source: his contribution to the fantasy fiction ouevre is the magnificent and thick-as-several-bricks ''Ghormenghast'' trilogy, a beautifully written account of life in a massive, rambling, castle-cum-city-cum-palace which has, er, accumulated over the course of several thousand years, with every new generation adding further bits to it as they see fit. Therefore it rambles a bit, like the most eccentric English stately home, and entire rooms, floors, even wings, have been lost over the centuries.

Peake richly describes the settings and populates the Castle with a civilization of grotesques, of whom the sanest and most sympathetic is possibly the good Doctor Prunesquallor, a man who like Cosmo Lavish is burdened with a dificult and sometimes embarrassing sister.

The social system is a suffocating heirarchy where a royal family rules at the top, and everyone else is born into a rigid caste system where even their very jobs are mapped out for them at birth. There is no way to change one's preordained social status, and until the advent of a rebellious kitchen scullion named Steerpike, nobody attempts to. At first a hero deserving sympathy, Steerpike climbs literally and metaphorically out of the depths of the castle kitchens and begins a calculated advance to the very top. His character subtly changes as his ambition grows, and it is clear he is seeking to depose the ruling family. After several murders, the former hero has become a monster: he is indirectly responsible for the death of the heroine Fuchsia, whose brother, Titus Groan, heir to Ghormenghast, resolves to destroy him.

A magnificent piece of fantasy and "baroque humour", a must-read for anyone into fantasy fiction, and another source of ideas and in-jokes for TP! ({{P}} is thought to be heavily influenced by Peake's characters. See [[Book:Pyramids/Annotations|here]]).

'''January 2010''': Breaking news. A fourth '''Gormenghast''' novel, started by Peake and finished, at least in draft outline, by his widow, has been discovered among a batch of the late author's papers. There is a possibility that it will see print by 2011. More here:- [http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jan/15/gormenghast-sequel-mervyn-peake-widow?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+theguardian%2Fbooks%2Frss+(Books)|More_here]. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 02:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

* {{wp|Mervyn Peake|Mervyn Peake}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Douglas Adams|Douglas Adams}} (Honorary #42)==
English comic author sometimes compared to Terry Pratchett, most famous for his ''Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'' series, who passed away in May 2001.

He developed a Pratchett-like idea in his novel ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Dark_Tea-Time_of_the_Soul The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul]'' (1988), where idiosyncratic private investigator Dirk Gently has to investigate a case involving the survival of the old Norse gods into the present day, and the nature of the dark pact they have to enter into to ensure their continued existence. This book echoes the Pratchett theme that a god may only survive so long as belief persists, and that there is no thing sadder than a god still doggedly hanging on after the need for him (or her) has ended.

The book also develops the concept of Thor (who is also encountered in ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_the_Universe_and_Everything Life, the Universe, and Everything]'' (1982) as an otherwise unnamed Thunder God trying to pull Trillian at a party, and being outwitted by Arthur Dent) as an over-muscled and somewhat thick god with exaggerated body language.

Some concepts are shared by Pratchett and Adams in their respective science-fiction work, most notably a debunking of the utopian ''Star Trek'' ideal that greater technological sophistication confers greater wisdom and a pacifistic world-view.

It can justly be said that Arthur Dent and [[Twoflower]] share a common characteristic: both are ignorant wanderers in a strange and foreign world, but the difference is that Arthur Dent is painfully and continually aware of how dangerous it all is, and of how much the settled inhabitants view him with condescending derision. (''Hey, monkeyman''!) Twoflower is blissfully unaware of the dangers and ambles unconcernedly through life. While it is true Arthur Dent does not have [[the Luggage]] to defend him, he is equipped with the Babel Fish (the equivalent is [[Rincewind]]'s ear for language) together with the resources embodied in Ford Prefect. Is Rincewind a parallel of Ford Prefect? Well, both have a vested interest in cheating death and running away from potential trouble by any means available. Just as Rincewind is constrained by the [[Patrician]]'s expressed wish to keep Twoflower alive and well, Ford must keep Arthur alive, as the last living being from planet Earth who may know the Question to the Answer. In both cases, a genuine friendship (of sorts) exists. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 17:02, 9 May 2007 (CEST) Seen otherwise, Arthur Dent shares some of ''Rincewind'''s view that he will be flung into a bad situation ''no matter what''.

* [http://www.douglasadams.com/ The official Douglas Adams website]
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Adams Douglas Adams] on Wikipedia
* [http://h2g2.com/ h2g2] - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

=={{wp|Philip Pullman|Philip Pullman}}==
An obvious choice, perhaps, but if you're looking for the fantastic and not just the hilarious, ''{{wp|His_Dark_Materials|His Dark Materials}}'' is a fabulous trilogy. It's probably the best fantasy since Tolkien. Terry Brooks, {{wp|Dragonlance|Weis and Hickman}}, {{wp|The_Dark_Is_Rising|Susan Cooper}} have all been and gone; JK Rowling's had a good go, but this is by far the best written of all of them. I know it's just become a film, but read the books first. The metaphysics is cool too. The idea of multiple worlds and realities (parallel universes?) could have come from [[Ponder Stibbons]] himself... --[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 14:05, 23 December 2007 (CET)

* {{wp|Philip_Pullman|Philip Pullman}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Robert Rankin|Robert Rankin}}==
Much kookier than Pratchett, Rankin has a love affair with running gags and breaking down the fourth wall, has a style that seesaws between grandiose and I'll-break-yer-teeth, and his books generally involve small British towns and aliens, Hell, Elvis, time travel, or all of them at once. Described as "stark raving genius". His most recent book, ''The Educated Ape'', has a chimpanzee for its lead character who is oddly reminiscent of a certain orang-utan, thwarting misdeeds in a Victorian Steampunk London assisted by scientists, assassins, and wizards. Hmm.

* {{wp|Robert_Rankin|Robert Rankin}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Ronald Searle|Ronald Searle}}==
A cartoonist, who created the St Trinians schoolgirls, as well as the Molesworth stories (in fact written by Geoffrey Willians) and several other books, like an illustrated adaption of Gilbert and Sullivan's work for print ''Dick Dead Eye''.

* {{wp|Ronald Searle|Ronald Searle}} on Wikipedia; {{wp|Geoffrey Willians|Geoffrey Willians}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Tom Sharpe|Tom Sharpe}}==
Mostly set in mid to late 20th century England, Tom Sharpe's novels range from smile-inducing to gut-wrenchingly funny on my personal humour scale, with "Ancestral Vices", "Porterhouse Blue" and "Blott on the Landscape" being the most relentlessly funny, to my mind. He holds no subject sacred, and his humour is much more brutal than, say, P. G. Wodehouse's or Terry's, but if you can stomach the wholesale and ruthless slaughter of sacred cattle and a certain amount of crudity, he can be a very funny author indeed. Common themes are weak-willed men, ferocious women, sexual perversions, incompetent academics and eccentric peers. The ''Wilt'' series deals with higher academia and the wranglings of an out-of-touch academic bureaucracy, concerned more with prestige and power than the delivery of education. The ''Piemburg'' farces are set in apartheid South Africa and centre on an inept and incompetent police force, which comes over as the City Watch shorn of its redeeming graces - it even has its own Findthee Swing and a dedicated "Cable Street Particulars" of the old sort. Secret policeman Liutnant Verkramp is obsessed with measuring and calibrating to assess the precise degree of black African corruption in the white race and has his own interesting character tics; the unspeakable Konstabel Els, a man who views being in the police force as a licence to get away with lots of crime, is a monster all on his own who loves very large powerful weapons - and their frequent satisfying use.

* {{wp|Tom Sharpe|Tom Sharpe}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Jonathan Stroud|Jonathan Stroud}}==
Author of the Bartimaeus Trilogy. These books are very witty with a superb use of footnotes. Told from the point of view of a wisecracking demon summoned by British magicians.

* {{wp|Jonathan_Stroud|Jonathan Stroud}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Theodore Sturgeon|Theodore Sturgeon}}==
The father of modern science fiction and sometime writer of wonderful fantasy short stories. He is often mentioned for his apparent prediction of the DNA molecule in his novella, ''The Golden Helix'' .
Sturgeon was the kind of professional writer, like TP, who could knock off an assignment from elsewhere with imagination and force (e.g. {{wp|I, Libertine|''I, Libertine''}}), and he has similarly been accused of literature. 
Look for {{wp|More Than Human|''More Than Human''}}, {{wp|The Dreaming Jewels|''The Dreaming Jewels''}} (aka The Synthetic Man), {{wp|Without Sorcery|''Without Sorcery''}}, ''E. Pluribus Unicorn'', ''Caviar'', but any collection you stumble across will contain a gem or two.

* {{wp|Theodore Sturgeon|Theodore Sturgeon}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Joseph Wambaugh|Joseph Wambaugh}}==
Like Edward Conlon above, Wambaugh is an ex-beat cop turned novelist. His first novel '''the New Centurions''' was written in 1971 whilst still a serving cop, and followed a group of misfits from police academy into their first probationary year on the beat on Los Angeles streets. A theme of New Centurions is the gradual build-up to a city-wide riot beginning in its equivalent of [[The Shades]] that put Los Angeles on the world map for all the wrong reasons. His fledgling cops have to deal with this as best they can - think {{MAA}} here. (In real life, the [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Riots|the Watts Riot] of 1965). The work for which he is most famous, '''The Choirboys''', employs the same combination of black humour and gritty realism, and is known to have influenced Terry Pratchett in creating the Ankh-Morpork City Watch. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 15:36, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

* {{wp|Joseph Wambaugh|Joseph Wambaugh}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|List_of_Dragonlance_novels|Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman}}==
The ''Dragonlance'' series of books are quite possibly the best all-out quintessential fantasy books since J. R. R. Tolkien. A normal premise (a relatively unassuming band of friends – who happen to be a warrior, a wizard, a knight, a half-elf, an elven princess, a hobbit-like creature, a dwarf and so on) become involved in a quest, and end up saving the world. Kitsch as that sounds, the story is genuinely enthralling and the first series spawned a massive TLR push, and there are now in excess of 50 books, Dungeons & Dragons-style RPGs &c all based on them. Go read - the first three (''Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night and Dragons of Spring Dawning'') are wonderful. --[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 20:21, 15 August 2007 (CEST)

The {{wp|Darksword|''Darksword''}} trilogy and the {{wp|Rose_of_the_Prophet|''Rose of the Prophet''}} trilogy are well worth reading, too. They are a lot more original than any of the ''Dragonlance'' books. The seven {{wp|The_Deathgate_Cycle|''Deathgate''}} books are well written, too.

* {{wp|List_of_Dragonlance_novels|Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|P.G. Wodehouse|P.G. Wodehouse}}==
Wodehouse's stories feature light humor, similar to Pterry's earlier works. Flashes of Wodehouse whimsy appear regularly and young Pratchett heroes like [[Moist von Lipwig]] resemble PGW's ''Psmith''. Willikins the butler, of course, comes in a straight line from the famous ''Jeeves''. There are a number of direct references, including, in *Hogfather* a suggestion that the Hogfather's pigs be urged on with the cry "Pighoo--ooey!" an echo of a Wodehouse story by the same name.

Also like Wodehouse is the development of several distinct groups of stories with their own casts and localities. The Blandings books are set at Blandings Castle and usually have to with the Earl of Emsworth's obsession with his pig; the Mulliner Stories are set in the Angler's Rest and are increasingly tall tales about Mr. Mulliner's relatives; the Drones Club is set in London among a set of truly hapless, albeit wealthy young men.

The turn of phrase is very similar: Neil Gaiman has pointed out that he, PTerry, Douglas Adams, and Jasper Fforde can all do it. Pratchett goes into darker territory: the most threatening figures in Wodehouse are aunts. But it can be argued that both Wodehouse and Pratchett present a view of the world that is ultimately accepting and tolerant.

* {{wp|P.G. Wodehouse|P.G. Wodehouse}} on Wikipedia

=={{wp|Patricia C. Wrede |Patricia C. Wrede }}==
Humorous fantasy in a Candide-like style (very short chapters with very long titles). Her {{wp|Enchanted Forest Chronicles|''Enchanted Forest Chronicles''}} explore what happens to a beautiful 16-year-old princess who does not WANT to get married to a handsome prince. Ostensibly written for children, it has a ''Harry Potter''-like style that can be enjoyed by adults (and was written ''way'' before ''Harry Potter'', btw!). [[User:Kellyterryjones|Kellyterryjones]] 00:47, 24 December 2007 (CET) She has also written a series of fantasy books set in an alternate frontier America. [[User:Tiffany_Aching|Tiffany_Aching]] 10:43, 17 July 2014

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Wrede Patricia C. Wrede] on Wikipedia

[[Category:Reading suggestions]]

Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum/Archive 4

2021-10-20T13:47:07Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum/Archive 4 to Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum/Archive 4 on Wheels!

<div class="usermessage">This is an Archived Discussion Page. If you wish to comment on any of these threads please do so at [[Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum]]. All new threads should be started there. Thank you.</div>

I didn't get a confirmation e-mail, although I seem to have an account. Did anyone get the e-mail? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:00, 27 September 2012 (PDT) It works now. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 18:50, 29 September 2012 (PDT) 
Oh wow...I just noticed that this version can display the ampersand in the title! --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:32, 27 September 2012 (PDT)

Spam here already! How do they even know it exists? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 09:16, 6 October 2012 (PDT)

:Funny thing I just discovered, I can prevent new users from creating new pages. They will have to wait a set number of days unless they confirm their emails. Now i just need time to implement it. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 11:03, 6 October 2012 (PDT)
::Is it not written: "We live and learn"? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 20:56, 6 October 2012 (PDT)

Strange goings-on back at the original wiki: no editing, apparently. A sign of progress, I trust. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 18:33, 7 October 2012 (PDT)

He backed up the site and sent it to me. He disabled edits because any new edits wouldn't get moved over to the new site --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 20:14, 7 October 2012 (PDT)

...and it's driving the spammers MAAAAAD! Over 250 today and the day's not over. I don't feel up to that; I hope there's some way to purge or re-start the user list. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 14:42, 9 October 2012 (PDT)

:I wouldn't bother, none of those new users will show up here since they're not included in the database backup that Sanity gave me. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 22:13, 9 October 2012 (PDT)

We now have the best part of a thousand spammer accounts arranged in one long neat unbroken list. I'm wondering if there is any way of simultaneously highlighting and deleting them all with two or three clicks of a mouse? (Select all to a certain point on the list and then hit block and delete, ideally, once each..) This would be so satisfying.... [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 11:12, 13 October 2012 (PDT)

:On this wiki a spammer has to pass two steps before they can make an edit. First they must pass the capcha, sadly some to them can do that. Second they must verify their email address, very few seem to be able to pass that second test. I wouldn't worry too much about deleting spam accounts. I plan to develop a script that will run monthly to clean them up. Basically, any user which hasn't confirmed their email after 30 days gets deleted. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 12:04, 8 November 2012 (PST)
:: Oh. It was sort of fun shooting them individually, seeing the terror in their beady little eyes... --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 14:37, 8 November 2012 (PST)

:::Feel free to shoot away, just don't worry if you miss. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 13:39, 9 November 2012 (PST)

==Starting over==
The notice at the top isn't available for editing or I'd fix the spilleng; anyway, there are some more bits missing:
*discussion pages
*categories (the list is there but not the page itself, heading and comments)
*The de: links (The Czech version seems to be gone anyway)
*and especially the wiki.lspace link
Other questions:
*Will there be a custom skin, wallpaper?
*Why is my ISP address different?
If there's a chance of losing any of this material, might we know what so we could download as much as possible while it's available? I've done my own stuff and some bits of history but there are many discussion pages I'd hate to lose, back issues of the Mended Drum, etc.--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:35, 15 October 2012 (PDT)

:I do have everything, i just need to get it working properly. RL issues have gotten in the way. I wouldn't edit this too much since I may replace quit a few pages. Also, the cabal will be updating the wiki.lspace.org link soon. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 19:15, 15 October 2012 (PDT)

::BTW The spammers can create users all day long but they cant post anything without email verification. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 20:06, 17 October 2012 (PDT)

:::So one verifies his email, WTF! --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 10:36, 18 October 2012 (PDT)

==Amazon Outage==
Since this website is now hosted on the Amazon Web Services cloud, any outage to Amazon will affect us. Hence the brief outage today. I don't think Amazon is back up to full capacity yet though since the server is still super slow. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 19:44, 22 October 2012 (PDT)

==Spam Accounts==
Hopefully, ReCapcha will continue to block the creation of spam accounts. It's been 15 minutes and no new accounts were created but I was able to create a test account.

BTW: You shouldnt see a capcha if you have an account and have confirmed your email. If ReCapcha continues to work well, I may allow anonymous edits again. Next item on the TODO list. Image files... --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 20:17, 26 October 2012 (PDT)
:It seems about 99% effective so far. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:09, 27 October 2012 (PDT)

Just a reminder, unless a spammer manages to authenticate it's email address that person cannot post. Very few of the spammers are managing to authenticate. The rest just create accounts that I delete every few months. You don't really need to delete all of them unless you really really want to. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 16:01, 29 January 2013 (GMT)
:There is now a list of about a thousand: the few legitimate contributors hardly matter to the total. Several have posted since the update. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:25, 29 January 2013 (GMT)
:Surely it would make sense to simply prevent spammers from creating accounts in the first place. Allowing to fill the database up with bogus accounts is counter-productive and the number of spam accounts that are created on this site each day is surprisingly high. See below re my suggestion. --{{User:CelticWanderer/sig}} 21:46, 6 June 2013 (GMT)

Hi all, just thought I would mention that I was quite amazed at the number of spam accounts being created on a daily basis here. This happened to me a while back on my own wiki before I changed my methods to combat it. I currently use [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit ConfirmEdit] with '''QuestyCaptcha''' to combat spam accounts etc. and since then I have not had a single spam account created! Why? Because it uses questions that you create to be used at the 'create account' stage. The account creator has to answer a question, which is random every time the page is refreshed. I have six questions on my site and one is really easy: 'what is the name of this wiki?' etc. I have five other questions relating to the subject matter of my wiki of varying levels. You can make them as easy or as difficult as you like (although I would recommend quite easy for novice readers of Discworld like myself) and this is pretty much the most effective way to combat 90-95% of spammers, especially bots who cannot understand the question option, therefore can never create a spam account.

Of course if a human was persistent in creating an account to post spam across this excellent site they could, especially if they are knowledgeable about Discworld, but in general people could work out the answer to a question by reading the information on this site. However, this is incredibly rare. Well, it is for my wiki anyway.

All you have to do is install the extension, think of a selection of questions (and include their answers) and add it to the localsetting.php file like this:

require_once( "$IP/extensions/ConfirmEdit/ConfirmEdit.php" );
require_once( "$IP/extensions/ConfirmEdit/QuestyCaptcha.php");
$wgCaptchaClass = 'QuestyCaptcha';
$arr = array (
"A question?" => "An answer!",
"What is this wiki's name?" => "$wgSitename",
'Please write the magic secret, "passion", here:' => 'passion',
'Type the code word, 567, here:' => '567',
'Which animal? <img src="http://www.example.com/path/to/filename_not_including_dog.jpg" alt="" title="" />' => 'dog',
);
foreach ( $arr as $key => $value ) {
$wgCaptchaQuestions[] = array( 'question' => $key, 'answer' => $value );
}

I don't even bother with recapture as it just wasn't effective against bots any more.

If the nice admin folk here haven't utilized it before then I would certainly recommend it. It worked for me --{{User:CelticWanderer/sig}} 08:40, 6 June 2013 (GMT)

:We used '''QuestyCaptcha''' last year in the original version. It slowed them down for about two days until their program learned the answers (I assume). My original idea was to use Discworld-specific questions and change them when necessary. It was pointed out that this might exclude not only newbies, but complete strangers from some link in left field who could still make a contribution. It's all engineering...and politics. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 19:39, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

::What questions did you use where bots could figure out the answers? Generally speaking they are not that sophisticated. Questions shouldn't be mathematical, too simple or too complicated so I guess it is difficult to say what would be considered as decent question that both veterans and newbies alike can answer. I think the questions should be Discworld specific and worded in simple English in such a way that the answer can easily be found on this site. Changing the questions when necessary, maybe every six months, is a good idea.
::I do, however, agree with you that using this extension ''might'' exclude newbies. I look at it this way, anyone who is serious in joining and contributing to the site (which are the people you want to be attracting here anyway) will be keen enough to find the answer/s to the question/s they are posed with.
::Giving it another try has to be an improvement on the current situation, which is far from ideal. I certainly would prefer to put more time into improving a site instead of dealing with spam accounts and vandalism. --{{User:CelticWanderer/sig}} 20:30, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

Just checking the [[Special:RecentChanges|RecentChanges]] again and the number of spam accounts being created on this site is crazy. Since last night (GMT) there have been 50 new spam accounts. How do you guys put up with this madness? I have noticed the admins spend a bit of time deleting these accounts and all this action is making the RecentChanges difficult to view. So, I checked my Watchlist and for some reason it is showing changes that shouldn't be there, see [[Watchlist issue|new section]] at bottom of page for more about this issue. --{{User:CelticWanderer/sig}} 16:50, 10 June 2013 (GMT)

'''''Here's an interesting development.'''''
go to Special Pages and then to Users and Rights/Active User List. Two names are mentioned there as active users - Parent7Kettle and Taiwan5kettle. both have only one edit to their name - in both cases they vandalised the Main Page, deleting it completely and repalcing with spam. As they were still listed as "active", I attempted to merge and delete.
But in both cases it was impossible to do so. I went through the merge/delete procedure and got this error message:

Database error
A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:
(SQL query hidden)
from within function "DatabaseBase::update". Database returned error "1062: Duplicate entry '0-0-Main_Page' for key 'wl_user' (127.0.0.1:3307)".

I am wondering if these might be the trojan hoses allowing other spammers to enter and set up fake accounts? [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 09:28, 18 June 2013 (GMT)

==Files Work Again!==
FYI: Pictures are back to working again. Also, sorry for the outages, first a slight hiccup because of a hurricane and then I got called away while in the middle of upgrading the hardware profile. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 22:09, 2 November 2012 (PDT)

==External Links Work Again!==
...you might boast about these things a little. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 20:45, 3 November 2012 (PDT)
:The link from Doubleday's Terry Pratchett site is still wrong, though. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 09:55, 10 November 2012 (PST)

==Moving In==
So are Talk pages going to be uploaded or are we starting anew?--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 23:25, 5 November 2012 (PST)
:Eventually, I'm having a small problem bringing up the copy of the system that Sanity gave me. That combines with real life considerations means I havent had the time to spend on it. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 10:40, 6 November 2012 (PST)
::I was just worried about what might happen if I created one and then the old one was added in later. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 14:56, 6 November 2012 (PST)
:::Keep a copy. I've made a couple of new entries, but on the basis that they might disappear. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:03, 6 November 2012 (PST)

The dense ''Cloud'' seems to have lifted; I've had smooth communication for a while now! --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:41, 6 November 2012 (PST)

:I increased the size of the server and fixed an email issue. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 18:37, 6 November 2012 (PST)
::Excellent, I had an issue with saving edits take five minutes and then fail to save but that no longer seems to be happening. I am also really glad that we have the little signiture button on the top of the editing screen again, it is really convenient. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 21:52, 6 November 2012 (PST)

==Hello==
I just wanted to introduce myself; I'm Joe, I was kind of active on the old wiki but since the wiki's been refreshed I'm going to try and be a lot more active! If there's anything I can do to help ten please drop me a note! --[[User:Krysophrase|Krysophrase]] ([[User talk:Krysophrase|talk]]) 03:58, 7 November 2012 (PST)
:It is good to see that people are making their way to the new wiki, also, what was your name on the old wiki?--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 07:41, 7 November 2012 (PST)
::I was called ArchchancellorJoe on the old wiki but I decided to change to my general internet name. --[[User:Krysophrase| Joe]] ([[User talk:Krysophrase|talk]]) 05:39, 9 November 2012 (PST)

==Blocking IP's==
Please do not block IP addresses. This site is now behind a load balancer so the site sees everyone coming from the same IP address. The load balancer was necessary to avoid having to have the Cabal update domain records when I resize the virtual server. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 13:18, 18 November 2012 (PST)

==Quick question:==
Is anyone else having difficulty uploading files (jpeg artwork) or is it just me?

Also, I may be slow on the uptake here and I'm sure nothing's actually been lost, I'm sure the Main Page on the old site said we had over 3,000 articles/entries. This one tells me we only have 1,707. But nothing of primary importance seems to have been lost? (All the Discussions, yes, but rather lose those than the main entries.) Is it just a different way of counting things? [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 14:36, 1 December 2012 (PST)
:I noticed that too. My thought is that it comes from losing the discussion pages and most other special pages such as the Catagory pages. Also it appears that not all pictures transferred correctly, many of the ones with symbols such as 'Ã' seem to be giving errors.--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 15:07, 1 December 2012 (PST) (Also is anyone else unable to paste text into the editor?)
:::Yep, I get a "Fatal exception of type UploadStashFileException". I mentioned the wonky counter before. (I just pasted the error message there.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:37, 1 December 2012 (PST)

My recurring error message is Could not create directory "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/a/a3". [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 07:49, 8 December 2012 (PST)

:Try now. I changed something and managed to upload a file. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 08:06, 8 December 2012 (PST)

Hey, thanks! Works perfectly, although the artwork (just a bit of amusing whimsy. Is Matt Smith still around?) came out a lot bigger than I anticipated! [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 08:38, 8 December 2012 (PST)

I would also like to see the [[Small Gods Question]] talk page fixed even if the other talk pages aren't. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 19:42, 1 December 2012 (PST)

I wasn't aware of that issue. I'll try working on it tomorrow. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 20:39, 1 December 2012 (PST)

1,524 articles today, despite having added at least twenty. Most strange! [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 01:43, 8 December 2012 (PST).
:...aka the Fred Colon Memorial article counter? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 05:34, 8 December 2012 (PST)

::How about {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}. Apparently, Sanity had this setting configured differently. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 07:27, 8 December 2012 (PST)

{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} now... hey, that's an interesting plug-in! [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 07:47, 8 December 2012 (PST)
:It seems pretty clever; it doesn't include any redirects or other extraneous pages that I can see. It matches the count in "Oldest pages". --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:19, 12 December 2012 (PST)
::It's a kind of [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words Magic] --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 21:49, 12 December 2012 (PST)

==Lspace Skin==
The old default skin is available in your preferences area. I haven't forced everyone over to it because it needs a few fixes in the sidebar. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 11:21, 2 December 2012 (PST)
:It only works in the preview, though; I can't save the setting. In fact, I can't save any setting. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 11:40, 2 December 2012 (PST)
::I get a message saying my changes were saved but nothing actually happens.--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 13:37, 2 December 2012 (PST)

==New Rant==
It seems slightly odd that absolutely no one from the foundation of the wiki remains active (except perhaps Death, who remains at the German Discwiki). OK, DaibhidC has chimed in a few times; not really active. The denizens of [[afp]] who thought it up in the first place have been conspicuously absent. The few of us on the staff now have remained since the second generation, but it seems we dwindle and rely on [[User:AgProv|AgProv]]'s input more than ever.

Why do we:
*not attract more useful contributors?
*not retain useful contributors (we've had many come and go)?
*not attract better illustrations, as AgProv just mentioned?

The current rough look and missing pieces of the wiki are another hindrance but the problem goes back years. Many of us have done good work over several years to produce a comprehensive and often amusing source of information but we seem to lack something in marketing.

One on my issues is that for some reason I always expect a small group of new contributors to join after Terry publishes a new book but for some reason they never materialize. Another thing is that when one searches 'Discworld wiki' we are pretty far down on the list, even lower then another wiki that has only 500 or so articles. This may be partially because of the site move but it defiantly isn't helping us. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 22:22, 14 December 2012 (PST)

:I don't find that problem with searches. If you Google the characters in the current 'Recent changes' this wiki comes first or second, generally. Major characters and names with other Roundworld meanings will have more competition and may push us down the list. Googling 'Discworld wiki' shows us on the first page, following only Wikipedia. This is part of why I wonder about the shortage of contributors. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 07:54, 15 December 2012 (PST)

::Many of the google searches I have done have shown this site to be at the top or at least near the top of each page. Wikipedia didn't even come up top when searching for 'Discworld wiki', this site did. So, I am guessing since your posting in December last year, this site's ranking has improved since then. I have moved my wiki several times and each time it took a little time to get back to the (or near) the top of google searches.

::Regarding the "rough look and missing pieces" hindrance, this is something I have been fighting with and have only in recent months changed the look of my wiki. I preferred the look of the Vector skin when that was released in version 1.16 but even now I find it quite dull so I slightly reinvented the Vector skin for my own needs just by changing some css. Aesthetics are very important! If people don't like the look of the site instantly for whatever reason they will not use it. This I have learned and so tried to make my wiki more inviting, which I am still working on but I'm definitely getting there. -- [[User:CelticWanderer|'''  CelticWanderer  ''']][[User talk:CelticWanderer|    talk    ]][[Special:Contributions/CelticWanderer|    contribs    ]][[Special:Editcount/CelticWanderer|    edits    ]] 07:54, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

::Regarding "why do we not attract more useful contributors", has anyone considered starting a Twitter feed or a Facebook page? I am sure you have. I don't use either as I have no use for them but millions of other people do and there must be a lot of Pratchett and Discworld fans out there using both. If you want to get a wider audience that doesn't simply reply on web searches, this might have to be the way to go. What about the Terry Pratchett website and asking for permissions to use illustrations fro there? Is anyone on their message boards spreading the word? -- [[User:CelticWanderer|'''  CelticWanderer  ''']][[User talk:CelticWanderer|    talk    ]][[Special:Contributions/CelticWanderer|    contribs    ]][[Special:Editcount/CelticWanderer|    edits    ]] 09:00, 7 June 2013 (GMT)
:The "rough look", of course, was in the early development; we have the old green skin back now and everything works except histories and foreign-language links, I think. The [http://www.terrypratchett.co.uk/ Terry Pratchett] site has fixed its link recently and I would expect that to send more visitors. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 19:59, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

As [[User:Zdm|Zdm]] mentioned, [[Talk:Book:Small Gods]] is one of the wiki's best efforts; how do we advertise that and reproduce it? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 04:39, 2 February 2013 (GMT)

==TODO List==
I should have some time to work on the wiki here in the next week since I'm off work. Of course, that can change at the whim of the lady and kiddo. So what's the top items you think are missing and that i need to work on? --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 23:47, 22 December 2012 (PST)
:I am still unable to save any preference changes and I would like to see the [[Small Gods Question]] talk page restored. Those are the only major thing I can think of right know. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 00:05, 23 December 2012 (PST)

The only thing that comes to mind is (perhaps selectively) restoring the Discussion pages, if this is at all possible. [[Currency]], [[Sock Under The Mattress]], and the one about everyday economics of Ankh-Morpork, all had interesting discussions going and additional notes, as I recall. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 03:37, 23 December 2012 (PST)
*<s>ALL the discussion pages</s> (well, nearly all; a few seem to have wandered off.)
*Page histories : probably not possible.
*<s>Other language links (de:)</s>
*<s>The Help namespace (mostly [[Help:Editing]])</s>
*<s>Whatever is wrong with the templates.</s> The templates are also mostly free from gibberish and editing themselves again, except the cover look-up from Amazon in the Book Data template. It still doesn't work and leaves an unsightly swath of code across the top. I can remove that but it leaves the image off-center and the box too wide. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:00, 27 January 2013 (GMT)
*<s>User preference settings.</s>
*A minor oddity: the contributors appear in code, or just as the universal IPA in the [[Special:NewFiles|Gallery of new files]], although they're correctly identified in the individual File: pages.
And what have you done to the poor spammers, by the way? <s>There don't seem to be any legitimate sign-ups either.</s> --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 07:30, 23 December 2012 (PST)

Also it would nice to have the old Mended Drum archives back. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 09:32, 23 December 2012 (PST)
:I have those myself. I can put them up again if Osiris can't extract them. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 10:10, 23 December 2012 (PST) They're there now. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 12:42, 27 December 2012 (PST)

Also the getting started guide is still missing. It is the only major red-link on the main page that I can see. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 14:05, 23 December 2012 (PST)
:Also done. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 12:42, 27 December 2012 (PST)

'''Merry Christmas''': Here's most of the [http://wiki.lspace.org/oldwiki/index.php/Special:AllPages old wiki] up and running. Still no access to anything in the Book namespace though. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 13:15, 25 December 2012 (PST)

I hadn't noticed that [[User:Death|Death]] joined us back in January (wie gehts, Jens). If there's a problem connecting the de: links he might be able to help. I'd like to lose those red links. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 01:21, 2 April 2013 (GMT)

==New element==
'''...and happy Hogswatch and Hogmanay.''' Hoo! This is getting confusing. I guess you mean there's no Book namespace in the "old wiki" (gods know why), but then in the "old wiki" there's a Talk page for "Bergholt Stuttley Johnson' but no actual page (likewise 'Broomstick'; of course it was only the Talk pages we were missing). Will it be possible to assimilate the Discussion pages into the "new wiki" or will we have to do that manually, as noticed or required? Casual viewers certainly can't be expected to find a nested "archive" wiki. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:56, 25 December 2012 (PST) 
I have some archives and Talk pages copied here, but I need to know whether it would be useful to paste them up now, or would that just get in the way of a general restoration? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:30, 25 December 2012 (PST)

:Talk pages have been imported.--[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 19:21, 25 December 2012 (PST)
::Very impressive. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 20:04, 25 December 2012 (PST)
:::...what he said. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 20:19, 25 December 2012 (PST)

Go here to [http://wiki.lspace.org/oldwiki/index.php/Special:Export export] and here to [[Special:Import|import]] --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 20:24, 25 December 2012 (PST)
:::Weird. Talk:Bibliography exists but Talk:Book:Title doesn't. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:08, 25 December 2012 (PST)

Here are the [http://wiki.lspace.org/oldwiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=&to=&namespace=100 BOOK] pages...
And the [http://wiki.lspace.org/oldwiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=&to=&namespace=101 BOOK TALK] pages...
--[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 07:41, 26 December 2012 (PST)
:::Things are looking up, but Discussions for {{SM}} and {{TOT}} seem to be missing (both significant, I would have thought). --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 11:36, 26 December 2012 (PST)
::::Neither of those are in the database. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 07:52, 27 December 2012 (PST)

==They're baaack!==
Speak of the devil and in crawls a spammer under just the common IP address. How did that happen? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:54, 27 December 2012 (PST)

Reverted his vandalism but I don't seem to be able to delete the bugger - keeps going to an error page. Can you help?[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 17:01, 27 December 2012 (PST)

You can't do anything to the spammer: it's just the common IPA that everyone converts to for reasons known only to denizens of the H.E.M. The question is how he got to edit at all without an ID. I just tried and just submitting an email address won't do it, you have to be logged in.
--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:25, 27 December 2012 (PST)

:My fault, for some reason people cant confirm email addresses at the moment so I was trying to find the cause and opened everything up for a few minutes. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 18:45, 27 December 2012 (PST)
::Sneaky buggers. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 19:05, 27 December 2012 (PST)

ref, user Gigano: not only the wrong language but totally irrelevant too. I ran his blathering through the Babylon translator and it comes out as ''Thanks to its type design each even smallest room in our flat may become not only interiors functional, but above all pleasant)''.I'd put it in better English if I could be bothered, but I'm not. Can't see that as being Discworld-relevant, somehow! [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 12:59, 8 January 2013 (GMT)

Is it just me or are account creations not showing up in the recent changes?--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 04:26, 9 January 2013 (GMT)

Account creation is broken. I still haven't figured it out yet either. I manually activated TC01's account. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 13:23, 9 January 2013 (GMT)

==A toast==
At the year's end, I suggest that our little band has made it to Florida, if not the stars. 
I propose a ''Brindisi'' (surely you have a glass of something handy at this time of year) to the Founders, Osiris, those who have hung in over the long drive, and all the valuable contributors over seven years. Here's to us, and the return of auld acquaintances and the arrival of article 4000. 
Happy Hogswatch, Happy Hogmanay, Bonne Année, Gelukkig Nieuwjaar, l'chaim and lang may yer lum reek! 
'''''Old Dickens''''' - ''Editor Quia Nemo Vult'' ... 31 Dec 2012

==Database Crashed==
Sorry for the outage, the db crashed when i wasnt looking. FYI: You can reach me at disc@osiris-web.com anytime to let me know of issues with the site. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 17:01, 2 January 2013 (PST)
:Yay! You probably had to go back to work today and I empathise, but spare a thought for those of us snowbound in the frozen north with nothing else to do. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:33, 2 January 2013 (PST)

==Crude remedy for messy templates==
Not as good as fixing the stupid template, but to remove the weird code in place of the unused "photo" field, use "Blank.jpg|". See [[Bashfull Bashfullsson]]. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:53, 9 January 2013 (GMT)

==Question re editing/previewing==

Hi! I've just noticed when I was setting up a new entry: I went to the Preview screen as usual to proof-read the piece and to seek to eliminate any glaring crass compositional errors, as you do. This is probably a case of All-Discworld-Slow-On-The-uptake syndrome, but I've realised the one thing you cannot preview in this screen is the Category. Therefore you can't see until you've saved the page is whether the details for Category are correct. it'sonly when it comes up as a redlink that you realise it isn't - I had a frustrating time with <<Category: Discworld Flora & Fauna>>, for instance. I don't suppose there's any way this can be amended? Cheers. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 22:22, 12 January 2013 (GMT)
:Ah, the new-style preview at the top of the box, no. It doesn't allow you to carry on editing, either; I don't see the use of it. The same old preview button at the bottom beside "Save page" works the same as ever. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 22:39, 12 January 2013 (GMT)

==Back in business?==
A tentative hallelujah for new users confirmation. Who's still out there? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 04:57, 26 January 2013 (GMT)
: Looks like Vandals 11, Contributors 0 so far. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:55, 26 January 2013 (GMT)
Also, I was about to delete the dead link to "Biers" in the sidebar, but I wondered if there were some reason for it. ?

:Turns out there was a bug in the 1.20.1 version of MediaWiki that recently got fixed in 1.20.2. So I upgraded. As for Biers, I don't care about it. Did you notice the default skin changed? And user preferences work again. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 05:51, 26 January 2013 (GMT)
::I don't care if nothing works after this, we have the old skin back and that deserves a little party. :) --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 06:37, 26 January 2013 (GMT)

==Discworld Diaries?==
Hi, I wanted to ask about the Discworld Diaries (Assassins, UU, Reformed Vampires etc)
Is the information in them considered cannon?

I have several of these and they have extra information not detailed in the books, such as a Ramtop kingdom which has embraced the Way of the Cospolite (and even the Black Cult that worship her evil neighbour Mrs Golightly), they name the Vampire Count that [[Greebo]] ate as a bat, and the previous Professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography who was eaten by Thunderlizards on [[Mono Island]].

Let me know if you'd like any of this added,

regards

--[[User:Dromandkass|Dromandkass]] 27 January 10:43pm GMT

As an example, Mr [[John Smith|John "Not-A-Vampire-At-All" Smith]] first appears in the Vampires' Diary, as does Pamela Betty von Jones: they cross over to {{T!}} as the vampire committee pressuring Vetinari and Vimes to add a vampire officer to the Watch. [[Alice Band]]'s first appearance was in the Assassins' Guild yearbook: she crosses to the opening chapters of {{NW}}. There are so many examples of information passing over from the Yearbooks to the novels that it's a pretty safe bet to assume it can be treated as canonical! Even more - but as I know to my cost, not ''all'' - information from the yearbooks has been copied over to the Companions.
Would you have the Assasins' Yearbook, dromandkiss? I'd love to see the incidental info in that in more detail! Cheers [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 22:36, 27 January 2013 (GMT)
:I think we've always assumed that anything with The Author's name on the cover is canon (note spelling), even if it might have been Stephen Briggs or others' idea; we rely on {{DC}} and {{NDC}}, we've wikified them for years. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 01:34, 28 January 2013 (GMT)

Thanks for your response, I'll start adding information from the diaries. The ones I have are: Unseen University, Assassins, Thieves, Post Office, Reformed Vampires & Lu Tze's book of enlightmement, but I don't have the Fool's or the Watch. I don't know why they didn't make more of these, there were plenty of groups they could have used (Seamstresses, Beggers, Times etc) it's a pity they stopped. Perhaps they weren't selling very well, but it's hard to get them these days, and most now sell online for more than they were worth when printed!
Regards --[[User:Dromandkass|Dromandkass]] 29 January 2013 11:03pm GMT

==Picture Rules?==

Do we have any official rules on which pictures can be uploaded and used and which can't? (copyright, artist request, ect.) Also is there a list of artists who have allowed their pictures to be used? --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 05:13, 28 January 2013 (GMT)

The accepted rule on copyright is that to use a picture, it requires the explicit and preferably written permission of the artist first. I have retained emails and PM's from artists I have contacted on deviantArt and other sites so that documentary proof exists and can be cited in the event of subsequent inquiry. Most artists are absolutely pleased for their work to be used here - if you ask nicely - so long as they are credited, a link is put up to their website or dA (or similarly hosted) gallery, and of course a rider is added about it not being copied on without permission nor used for commercial gain.

"Public domain" images are acceptable if used and do not require permission - my adaptations of currency notes that have been reproduced here and there, for instance.

There is also a rule about "fair usage" - ie, if part or all of a copyright image is used in the context of an academic argument or critical discussion. For an example, refer to illustration on the [[Alice Band]] page, where "fair usage" would justifiably apply to both illustrations as they are cited to demonstrate a point about the character's origins.

Of course, any member of this site who posts their own artwork - Matt, puggdogg, me - has implicitly given consent by posting their own intellectual property here, although this is of course protected from copying on by the same copyright protocol!

And, as Old Dickens has pointed out, it is common courtesy to get the artist's name exactly right in the credit...whoops...

I'm not sure about the provenance or right-to-use of screen grabs from the various Discworld animations, though. I note there's a Dibbler illustration on his page that is taken direct from the animation of {{SM}}. If we can't justify "fair usage", this may need to be taken down. Votes on this? [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 08:25, 28 January 2013 (GMT)
:We've gotten along for some time using fairly small and low-res versions as have others. I'd say we continue as always and if an artist objects we'll take it down (no one ever has). They should be at less-than-photo resolution and modest size '''even as uploaded''' (the full version being available for download by anyone, not just the size in the article. Credit should always be given, of course. I think some of that is missing. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:09, 28 January 2013 (GMT)
:Is it not written: "everything works if people are reasonable"?
:I had a think about "credit should always be given". If AgProv has gone to Jennifer Babcock and been granted permission to publish her drawing, it's probably polite to credit her; people who write, though never so cleverly, don't sign their work in a wiki or get credit outside the History. Why do contributors of graphics get special consideration? Because they're scarce. We've had dozens, maybe a hundred valuable contributors of text. The list of signed-up, volunteer contributors of useful graphic art is very short. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:36, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

Quite pleased with myself... I've been schmoozing various artists I know or have encountered, and got a really nice picture for the Quoth the Raven page today. (Thanks, Jen! I know you promise yourself you'll properly start reading Pratchett one day. Given your academic speciality, I may send you a thank-you copy of {{P}} c/o your university. You'll either love it or hate it. I'm guessing "love."). with a bit of luck, there will be more guest artists on the way, one or two of whom may even sign up and contribute. you never know...[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 00:14, 30 January 2013 (GMT)
:Carry on, you silver-tongued devil! --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:36, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

Another issue comes up with [http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/index.php/File:Dave.jpg this] picture is that it is no a screenshot of the movie, it is a picture of a prop from the movie, with no photographer credit given. How do we deal with situations where we don't know who took/created the picture? Also there are some other pictures from [http://www.paulkidby.com/news/july2010.html here] that I would love to use, specifically the ones of Terry with the clacks tower signs but I'm not sure whether 'fair use' covers them or not. Even Wikipedia's rules don't seem to entirely cover this situation. Also the We-r-Igors picture [http://www.paulkidby.com/cmot/index.html here] is amazing. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 05:32, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

I share your concern over use of the Pin Exchange image, as it seems to have been lifted from the PJSM site, who have a very large warning notice up saying they will pursue breaches of copyright and unapproved re-users of their imagery. I have emailed them to request permission (see below) and we will see what reply comes back, if any. Until then I thought it was prudent to take down the Pin Exchange picture - at least temporarily, until formal permission is or is not given. Their FAQ page suggests they will be sympathetic, though!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hello,
If I can introduce myself and humbly beg a favour. I and several other Pratchett obsessives run, manage and edit the Discworld and Terry Pratchett L-Space Wiki, which we intend to be as complete an encyclopaedia of all things Pratchett as we can manage. We currently have over 3,500 entries and we hope not to stop here!

''(link to Main Page)''

We are currently looking for illustrations to accompsny our articles. Mindful of your intention to protect your copyright, we do not want to infringe or cause offence. But please could we humbly ask if we can use images of your products, with your permission, to accompany our work? We are expressly not for profit nor in it for commercial gain, just performing a labour of love for Terry and his works. I stress that any use of your images will be accompanied by a full credit and a redirect link to your site - please view this as free advertising, as the Wiki comes up on the first page of many Google searches and draws attention from around the world. We are proud of our creation and naturally wish to source only the highest quality illustrations. Your wishes will naturally be respected if you do not want us to use your material.

With very great thanks

----------- , posting as "AgProv".

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On my wiki I take copyright seriously and always try to cover myself by using the appropriate templates for image use. For an image that was 'taken', for want of a better word, from a website I use the 'Somewebsite' template, which states:

''"The editor who uploaded this work found it on a website or in a publication where the current copyright status is unconfirmed. This means the image may be in breach of certain copyrights even if the editor thought it to be in the public domain. This license can be used while the status of this work is determined by the editor, whose responsibility it is to ascertain the correct license. This tag should be removed when an appropriate license is in use.''

''If any image using this license infringes on copyright law please contact us and we will, with proof from the copyright holder, remove the work immediately with our sincere apologies."''

Would something like this be any use for the Pin Exchange image? -- [[User:CelticWanderer|'''  CelticWanderer  ''']][[User talk:CelticWanderer|    talk    ]][[Special:Contributions/CelticWanderer|    contribs    ]][[Special:Editcount/CelticWanderer|    edits    ]] 08:20, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

:Also, if you create a wide selection of templates you should be able to cover various different permissions that are granted by artists. This is my short list of [http://border-regiment.co.uk/index.php?title=Border_Regiment_Wiki:Copyrights licenses that I use]. I would certainly wouldn't mind helping you guys out there. -- [[User:CelticWanderer|'''  CelticWanderer  ''']][[User talk:CelticWanderer|    talk    ]][[Special:Contributions/CelticWanderer|    contribs    ]][[Special:Editcount/CelticWanderer|    edits    ]] 08:25, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

==Technical difficulties are temporary; do not adjust your shorts==
The dreadful slowness seems to have returned. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 01:23, 9 February 2013 (GMT)

:I haven't downsized the server. I'll have to look at log files to see if we're under higher then usual spammer load. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 04:08, 9 February 2013 (GMT)

==Architecture Change==
I've drastically changed the architecture of the backend system to more easily allow me to scale resources to demand. If you see any issues or wierdness please let me know at [mailto:disc@osiris-web.com disc@osiris-web.com]. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 19:54, 10 March 2013 (GMT)

==Uploads?==
I can't upload a file. The message is: ''Could not create directory "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/8/82"''.
--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:59, 20 March 2013 (GMT)

:Looks like I still had a permissions issue from when I moved the image storage to Amazon S3. I've applied the proper permissions now and was able to upload a file. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 02:11, 21 March 2013 (GMT)

Is there still an issue with image uploads? Or are the permissions set to deny newbies from uploading images and creating pages until they have reached a certain number of edits? I only ask as I wanted to upload an icon for my talk page template and I get the following: You do not have permission to create new pages. -- [[User:CelticWanderer|'''  CelticWanderer  ''']][[User talk:CelticWanderer|    talk    ]][[Special:Contributions/CelticWanderer|    contribs    ]][[Special:Editcount/CelticWanderer|    edits    ]] 21:45, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

==Oddity==
Now, how can [[User:Konsumencerdas]] vandalise my user page on the 6th after having been deleted on the 3rd? ... --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 04:20, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

==Downtime==
Expect some downtime this week while I apply security updates to the wiki. Not sure when yet though. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 20:30, 15 April 2013 (GMT)

:unfortunately, I'm a victim of all the flooding in Illinois. No time for maintenance right now --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 13:19, 21 April 2013 (GMT)

==Archive==
I just noticed that the old wiki ''complete with '''histories''''' is still available at [http://wiki.affordable-prawns.co.uk/wiki/Main_Page AffordablePrawns]. I don't know how to copy them, but you can look things up. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 13:55, 17 April 2013 (GMT)
:Bummer! It's gone; he just has a link to this one now. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:16, 5 September 2013 (GMT)

==Forensic?==
This might be something or it might be nothing. I expressed a suspicion some time ago that one spamming tactic being used here is for somebody to register as a legitimate user, allay any suspicion by making one or two legitimate-looking entries, and then use that legitimate site membership as a doorway to introduce spam. I believe I've found evidence of this. User Lonna7626 made a strange but obviously human change, just about legitimate in context (a very vague comment about the locker-room incident between Angua and Sally), to the Angua von Uberwald page, recorded in the history, which was deleted by a later user. Lonna7626 reappeared today with a spam posting in German extolling the virtues of Viagra and posting a link to a dubious chemists' site. I don't know if this is useful intel for Osiris, but it's another angle on the way these people are operating. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 09:06, 23 April 2013 (GMT)

:And if true, there's not really anything i can do about it. Now back to my unscheduled flood vacation. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 16:23, 23 April 2013 (GMT)

Hope you're not too badly afflicted by the floods! Just think... you could be living in Ankh-Morpork and the river in question might be.... [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 22:53, 23 April 2013 (GMT)

==1.20.5 Upgrade==
The wiki was upgraded tonight and I'm playing around with the capcha settings. Every edit should now require a capcha. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 01:36, 8 May 2013 (GMT)

==Spam & Moderation==
I'm seriously considering switching this wiki to a review/moderation model. Here's the extension I'm considering implementing.

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension%3aFlaggedRevs

Specifically, once a user has had a few edits reviewed, they will be added to the autoreview group so that they don't need to have approval for modifications anymore.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 18:05, 29 May 2013 (GMT)

:Sorry, I don't know if I understand through the jargon in the Mediawiki page. I'll need explanations as well as AgProv, I suspect. It doesn't sound as if it will reduce traffic in ''Recent changes'' or the ''User list''. I guess I can't tell if it will save more trouble than it costs. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:30, 29 May 2013 (GMT)

::Ok here's another thought, new members can't create new pages until theyve made X number of article changes that werent reverted??? --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 17:42, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

:::This doesn't always work as sometimes people cannot offer anything new to an existing article that improves or extends it in any way. In that case, especially if they are new to the subject, they will never be able to contribute on a wider scale and therefore don't come back to the site. -- [[User:CelticWanderer|'''  CelticWanderer  ''']][[User talk:CelticWanderer|    talk    ]][[Special:Contributions/CelticWanderer|    contribs    ]][[Special:Editcount/CelticWanderer|    edits    ]] 08:36, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

==Wait a minute...==
the page title has lost the ampersand again. That was fixed! --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:34, 29 May 2013 (GMT)

:I still see an ampersand. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 14:54, 30 May 2013 (GMT)
::...and not an "amp"? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:54, 30 May 2013 (GMT)
:::looks fine to me --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 17:40, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
::Curious. On my computer or my wife's with Windows 7 it shows the code rather than the symbol, as it used to in the old version. An ampersand shows normally in the page or listed in a category, but page titles show '''& amp ;'''. While looking for examples I also found I couldn't search in the Discworld & Pratchett Wiki namespace: content, users, categories, but not D & PW. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:30, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

I'm still having this problem, whichever computer or browser. Can everyone else really create and see an "&" in a page title without the "amp;"? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:38, 5 September 2013 (GMT)
:No I still have the "amp"--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 04:04, 5 September 2013 (GMT)

Oh, good; it's not just a curse that follows me around. Funny how it comes and goes and some don't seem to have the problem. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:35, 5 September 2013 (GMT) 
It doesn't matter if I use the & amp ; form or import an ampersand from Windows character map or use the Wikipedia form "%26", it comes up the same way. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 22:27, 5 September 2013 (GMT)

It looks as if it's in the PHP rather than the wiki. See [http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.htmlspecialchars.php php.net:htmlspecialchars]. I have no idea if there's a need for it elsewhere or why it's changed back and forth. Googling turns up other examples of the problem like CBC radio's "Quirks & amp; Quarks". --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 22:48, 6 September 2013 (GMT)

==I'm locked out!==
There seems to be a spanner in the works in the permissions area. Usually I can log in, but I get chucked out again as soon as I try to edit. I get permission error as well as a notice that I must have cookies enabled (which of course they are, as usual). Sometimes I can get in one edit. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 13:35, 4 June 2013 (GMT) 
It's intermittent: it was ok for a while but now it's back. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:44, 4 June 2013 (GMT) 
Same bs today: can't log in, log-in comes and goes, no permission, no cookies...--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 22:11, 5 June 2013 (GMT) 
Pfui. I thought resetting the modem was going to work, but no, same rotating error messages. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:17, 7 June 2013 (GMT) 
But then, I find I can just ignore many of the error messages, go back and do it again. It just takes twice as long. Gremlins. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:36, 7 June 2013 (GMT) 
Definitely gremlins. Everything works normally today...so far.--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 02:16, 8 June 2013 (GMT)
:I'm continuing to have permission problems. Shame really as I have had plenty of spare time today and I can't get on with creating new templates that I think would be helpful to the site. (signing without my other signature as not to incur the wrath of those higher up the food chain!) --[[User:CelticWanderer|CelticWanderer]] ([[User talk:CelticWanderer|talk]]) 14.54, 9 June 2013 (GMT)

==Contact us page==
I was wondering if you could implement a contact us page for those who would like to, for instance, contact an admin if they have a question prior to registration or, like myself, have registered, have verified my email address but now cannot use the wiki's internal mail system. Frustrating, especially as it says my email address has not been verified, when it has. I don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere but having a contact us page would be helpful for such instances (as I have tried to contact admin without luck). My [http://border-regiment.co.uk/index.php?title=Border_Regiment_Wiki:Contact_Us contact us] page is simple but effective and anyone who has question, concern or general comment can get in touch by clicking on the mailto: link that opens up the user's own default email client.

Is this something you could possibly implement in the near future? -- [[User:CelticWanderer|'''  CelticWanderer  ''']][[User talk:CelticWanderer|    talk    ]][[Special:Contributions/CelticWanderer|    contribs    ]][[Special:Editcount/CelticWanderer|    edits    ]] 20:44, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

==User rights==
Apparently the restriction on page creation is installed, but how should one become a ''creator''? [[User:Drakon467|Drakon467]] has created a page already; [[User:Bs75660|Bs75660]] has three months of useful minor edits; [[User:Sdornhoff|Sdornhoff]] and [[User:Sharlee|Sharlee]] show more than ten edits each. 
The rules will also need to be explained to new members {linked in the Main Page and included in their confirmation e-mails?) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 14:26, 9 June 2013 (GMT)
:I think something needs to be set in stone in a clear, concise manner and shown in obvious place. Tell us what new members can or cannot do on this wiki and if we cannot create new pages to start with (which is a good idea to prevent any unnecessary spamming and vandalism), we should be notified that we have to make a minimum of, for instance, at least five edits before page creation is allowed.
:I think this should be included in a user's talk page when they create their account. I use the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage New User Message] extension, which displays a welcome message of your choosing on the user's talk page. The user can make any necessary changes to their talk page later by simply editing it should they wish but at least it will inform them of what they can and cannot do on this wiki. Here is an [http://border-regiment.co.uk/index.php?title=User_talk:Ahnawiki example of a user page] on my wiki that was created using the above mentioned extension. --[[User:CelticWanderer|CelticWanderer]] ([[User talk:CelticWanderer|talk]]) 15:56, 9 June 2013 (GMT)

I was just looking at the user rights list and see that [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] is the ''only'' person (apart from the other admins) who can create pages. Is this right? Why have emailconfirmed and autoconfirmed options if they aren't being used effectively? I have confirmed my email address but I don't appear in the email confirmed list. And I have made 30+ edits (all be it mostly here and my own user pages) over the last three days. The only reason I can think of having the 'creator' user rights option is for admin to physically give a user the appropriate permissions to create pages upon proof of their usefulness as an editor. If this is the case then fair enough, it's a good idea but can we please be notified from the start so we know where stand. I hope to be of some use to this site but at the moment with the permissions as they are I feel what I can offer is limited. --[[User:CelticWanderer|CelticWanderer]] ([[User talk:CelticWanderer|talk]]) 16:15, 9 June 2013 (GMT)

:Those groups are just a couple days old. I've been configuring autopromotion to make users implicit members of these groups. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 19:12, 9 June 2013 (GMT)

==Quotes (again)==
''copied from Archive 3'' 
Sorry if this has come up before (I couldn't see it anywhere) or if I'm in the wrong place, but I think it would be a good idea to have quotes at the top each article. There are two main reasons: 1) Demonstrates a bit about the character in the purest form... 2) Gives us an excuse to quote Pratchett, who's amazing quotable. One wiki I've seen do this is Wookieepedia (e.g. [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis here]), although there are many others. I imagine the quotes would look something like this:
:"''Blahblahblah.''"
:? Rincewind, ''[[The Colour of Magic]]''
Only handled by a nice template. [[User:Harry Blue5|Harry Blue5]] 20:15, 16 August 2011 (CEST)
::This would be a great idea to implement and I am surprised it hasn't been introduced already. I wouldn't mind coming up with a template for it. --{{User:CelticWanderer/sig}} 15:26, 9 June 2013 (GMT)
:::Are there any objections to this? --{{User:CelticWanderer/sig}} 16:32, 10 June 2013 (GMT)

==A category main page, perhaps?==
Is it just me or does anyone else sometimes find the [[Special:Categories|categories]] page a little bland? Ok, as an alphabetical list this does its job more than adequately but has anyone considered having a categories main page (a sort of landing page, top level page or contents page for categories) and linking it to the sidebar for easy access. This is something I implemented a while back on my own wiki and I find it a useful tool for browsing the entire site via categories. Is this something you would be interested in implementing here? --{{User:CelticWanderer/sig}} 16:29, 10 June 2013 (GMT)
:Does anyone have any objections to this? --{{User:CelticWanderer/sig}} 08:55, 12 June 2013 (GMT)

==Watchlist issue==
My Watchlist is showing actions that shouldn't be there. I use the watchlist because [[Special:RecentChanges|RecentChanges]] is so overpopulated with newly created spam accounts making it awkward to find the genuine stuff. But, I seem to have [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] merge/delete actions appearing, as shown below:
<pre>
(User merge log); 14:49 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) User NormanHil (7968) merged to Anonymous (0) ‎
(User merge log); 14:49 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) Deleted user: NormanHil (7968) ‎
(User merge log); 14:09 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) Deleted user: ErickaJQV (6047) ‎
(User merge log); 14:09 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) User ErickaJQV (6047) merged to Anonymous (0) ‎
(User merge log); 14:03 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) User PaulinaCl (7963) merged to Anonymous (0) ‎
(User merge log); 14:03 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) Deleted user: PaulinaCl (7963) ‎
(User merge log); 14:03 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) Deleted user: JerriFTE (7959) ‎
(User merge log); 14:03 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) User JerriFTE (7959) merged to Anonymous (0) ‎
(User merge log); 14:03 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) User ElissaMae (7945) merged to Anonymous (0) ‎
(User merge log); 14:03 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) Deleted user: ElissaMae (7945) ‎
(User merge log); 14:02 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) Deleted user: BritneyBo (7942) ‎
(User merge log); 14:02 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) User BritneyBo (7942) merged to Anonymous (0) ‎
(User merge log); 14:02 . . Old Dickens (Talk | contribs) Deleted user: WillisVFO (7887) ‎
</pre>
I would like to see only the pages I have added to my watchlist; is this happening to anyone else? Any suggestions how to correct this? Thanks. --{{User:CelticWanderer/sig}} 17:00, 10 June 2013 (GMT)

==Little administrative problem==
Offing so many spammers in one go gave a real sense of achievement. I also have an uneasy feeling that when I went into autopilot on the delete button, User Sharlee (7070) might have been legitimate, as on reviewing, he/she made a couple of insightful edits to the [[Unseen University]] page. '''''(Deep sense of "whoops")''''' I may have deleted them in error. Is it possible to get a second opinion on this and restore them?[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 23:31, 17 June 2013 (GMT)
:[[User:Sharlee|Sharlee]] certainly had several legitimate edits, but I can't see anything to do about it. There's no unmerge function or undo in the logs that I can find. Oh, [[User:Osiris|Osiris]]!...--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:06, 18 June 2013 (GMT)
::too late. Nothing can be done. Sorry guys I'm getting married next week so I haven't been around much. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 04:39, 18 June 2013 (GMT)
Mazel tov, Osiris! There's got to be a better way... I'm ashamed to say while I've deleted a thousand spam accounts, two legitimate users have been deleted in error too, in the last week. And in the last month three thousand spam accounts have been created and are yet to be dealt with. That error rate is just too high (I've left fulsome apologies where I hope they'll be seen. Wish I had their email addresses so I could apologise in person. are these stored anywhere?) While I've cleared out all the spam accounts beginning with "A" and a good few of the "B"'s - as well as routine demolition of new ones as they pop up - I'm now hideously aware that mistakes will inevitably happen and I do not want to make any more. So tonight I've just identified a few known legitimate users who still have to make an entry on their user pages and left temporary messages there, so they show up blue in the user list and are less likely to be deleted in error. but there has to be a better way around this. Otherwise I'd keep on zapping through the B's....[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 00:18, 22 June 2013 (GMT)

==Re: Sharlee==
So, if [[User:Sharlee|Sharlee]] is viewing, she(?) will have to sign up anew with our apologies for allowing [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] to operate a vehicle on the internet while ratted. (If the old name doesn't work, add an "e".) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:26, 19 June 2013 (GMT)

Sharlee appears to have made further edits on the 19th June - I merged her in error on the 17th. So that's heartening. I have left an apology message on her userpage. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 22:04, 20 June 2013 (GMT)

Sharlee turned out to have an account on the Official Terry Pratchett forums. I sent her an apology and invitation to rejoin via PM. Aldibibable (Rob from Dudley) has an account on Wikipedia; there can't be two people with that username, so I sent him an apology and POM via Wikipedia so he's aware. I think the situation is rescuable...[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 00:43, 22 June 2013 (GMT)

==You-Tube==
Just discovered there's an anti-spam filter in place that prevents new links being made to You-Tube. Does this mean all old you-Tube links are now dead, and need to be edited out? and/Or that it's no longer possible to link to any external site? Ah well, i suppose it's necessary...[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 18:22, 26 June 2013 (GMT)
:Was there an old You-Tube link? Without being able to remember one, I'd say I could do without them. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:16, 27 June 2013 (GMT)

==Clever buggers==
''from discussion in [[User talk:AgProv]]''...

So, [[User:Parent7kettle|Parent7kettle]] and [[User:Taiwan5kettle|Taiwan5kettle]] have found a foxhole in the database where they can't be killed. We haven't heard from them directly, though, since 8 Jun. [[User:DortheaM3|DortheaM3]] is a bit different: shows as "not registered" and "Invalid old user name" but still appears in the history by name, not as "Anonymous". [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] may refer to the same account I found that had been deleted three times; we also saw [[User:Sharlee|Sharlee]] re-enlist under the same name. I can put up with the re-registering, the alternative seems worse, but DortheaM3 and the kettle brothers seem to point out serious holes in the perimeter. . --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:10, 27 June 2013 (GMT)

Just a thought, why don't you try registering under the DorotheaM3 username and see what happens? If you can register then I smell a bug in the logging. Maybe deleting the account again would clear it. If you can't register than rather than a bug I detect a rat. [[User:Manwe|Manwe]] ([[User talk:Manwe|talk]]) 18:17, 27 June 2013 (GMT)

Atempted to re-register DortheaM3 but an error appeared in the confirmation box - this appears to be down at present.[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 13:20, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

also noted: [[User:Darrington07]] is in the same category as the Kettles.[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 15:09, 11 July 2013 (GMT)

Check out [[User:Kristophe]] for another non-standard spammer - apparentrly deleted twice before but has returned twice with the same name! [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 15:21, 14 July 2013 (GMT)

Also, please monitor [[User:Moist von bigwig]]. Ambiguous case: They registered on 16th July, but have so far made no contributions. The name does not follow the usual spammer pattern - for one thing there are spaces between the three parts of the name and the name is a clear pun on a Discworld character. This suggests a legitimate Pratchett fan, but it's puzzling as to why they've made no contris yet.[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 07:09, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

Another interesting one. [[User:DaniellaEstes]]. I deleted and merged this account at 22:10. Yet a couple of minutes later at 22:12, the same user pops up and makes a spam edit. Is there a time-lag operating here? [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 21:20, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
:And [[User:CarltonC77]] was not registered, not in user list, couldn't be merged but had a User talk page. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 14:21, 15 August 2013 (GMT) Likewise [[User:CindieWhite86‎]]. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:39, 15 August 2013 (GMT)
:User talk:GwenArndtrtb‎ appeared two minutes after I deleted GwenArndtrtb‎. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 01:30, 20 August 2013 (GMT)

==Speaking of spam==

Can I ask what I am meant to do if I find spam? For example I just came across [[User talk:JamalChap]] while taking a glance in recent changes. I have blanked a couple of pages in the past, but I don't want to seem like I am trying to play admin. Are you guys happy with us as users removing links or do we need to report or what? [[User:Manwe|Manwe]] ([[User talk:Manwe|talk]]) 18:04, 27 June 2013 (GMT)
:I think it's safer if you don't: one of us at least is patrolling every day and we'll have to do the deleting anyway. The only way you could make a difference is if we mistook the article for your work and passed over it. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 22:14, 27 June 2013 (GMT)

==Capcha Questions==
ReCapcha obviously isn't working so I'm thinking of switching back to the question system. Anyone want to take a shot at developing questions and answers that we can use that are Pratchett related?
:I suggest e-mailing these rather than publishing them here. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:46, 7 July 2013 (GMT)
On another note, e-mail wont be working for a few days. Too many spammers signed up with bad email addresses so Amazon SES kicked us out due to the high bounce rate. Very Frustrating!

--[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 05:16, 7 July 2013 (GMT)
:They're definitely out of hand today. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:40, 9 July 2013 (GMT)
:Any progress on this file? Did you get the questions? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:53, 18 July 2013 (GMT)
Any news on this?--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 17:53, 10 August 2013 (GMT)

==Friendly fire==
i think I've solved the problem of inadvertently deleting bonafide users whilst snuffing spam accounts at speed. I went to "special pages - user list - show by user contributions" and narrowed it down to twenty or thirty users who have all made legitimate contributions since the new wiki opened for business. I physically checked their contribution records, deleted a couple of spammers who'd slipped through the net, and blue-lined the rest so they show blue in the user record. One or two appeared "borderline" and I'm not too happy about them (well, not 100%). "WikiShaper334" has made ''one'' short , valid, contri, but the name is too like a typical spammer name.... and one other, who I sense posted once, might have got miffed his not-very-good first contri was deleted on patrolling and hasn't come back since. If others could check out [[User:WikiShaper334]] and give a second opinion? Thanks! [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 15:02, 11 July 2013 (GMT)
:We can't complain about the contribution to [[Goblins]]: maybe he's a spammer in his spare time, but he hasn't done us any harm (yet). --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:51, 18 July 2013 (GMT)

==The (rare) joys of spam reduction==
Sometimes the machine-generated Spammish is almost too good to delete, but I force myself. 
The cheery greeting "Decent to achieve you!" broke me right up. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 19:18, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

==Blessed Relief==
'''QwestyCatcha''' with relevant questions was installed 31 Aug at 17:00 GMT and has eliminated the SEO/spam vermin completely for the first day. Let's hope they can't find a way around this one anytime soon. [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 18:33, 1 September 2013 (GMT)

==General Question==
It seems that only the book [[The Colour of Magic]] has got a plot summary. Is that by design or has no one simply written a summary for the other books? --[[User:Ssalogel|Ssalogel]] ([[User talk:Ssalogel|talk]]) 21:34, 9 September 2013 (GMT)
:{{E}}, {{SM}}, {{H}}, {{CJ}}, {{TFE}}, {{TT}}, {{NW}}, {{GP}} and {{T!}} all have plot sections as well. I feel that TP writes the plots pretty well, myself, but there hasn't been any rule for or against them. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 22:40, 9 September 2013 (GMT)

==Filtration==
The Spam Filter doesn't allow the word "h*listic", as in ''Dirk Gently's H*listic Detective Agency'', making editing of the first section of [[Book:The Last Continent/Annotations]] difficult. It's the first time I've found a banned word. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:55, 10 September 2013 (GMT)

Also "B*eber" (as in Justin): not a likely problem, but I stumbled on it, too. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 02:11, 15 October 2013 (GMT)

==Rising from the ashes==
We're back after a week's impromptu hiatus. None too soon: I fear it's too late for me to get a life. 
What was that in aid of? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 20:53, 20 September 2013 (GMT)

==Search problem?==
'''Pardessus Chatain Pursuivant''' appears in [[College of Heralds]] but does not appear in a search except where linked in [[Book:Feet of Clay/Annotations]]. Is that a general problem? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 01:54, 2 October 2013 (GMT)

==Missing Persons==
What's become of our [[User:AgProv|AgProv]], then? He hasn't been seen around Fanfic.net either: I fear he may have fallen into ''employment'', or worse. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 02:28, 6 October 2013 (GMT)
:I was wondering that myself. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 04:45, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

I'm back. Employment got in the way, as you rightly surmised. Had to reassess my priorities and spend less facetime on line...
There is, however, the beginning of a crossover between the Discworld and ''The Big Bang Theory'' over on Fanfic. I was looking at the many, many, personality quirks present in Sheldon Cooper, Raj, Howard and leonard and thinking - where have I seen people with similar academic qualities before? And after discounting UEA Norwich and Pryfysgol Owain Glyndwr, I was left wondering. If HEX had a reason to send Ponder Stibbons to Caltech, what sort of cross-fertilisation of minds might occur? Add his particular "penny" to make contact with the girls and we have the nucleus of a tale...

By the way, I was dreading looking at "Recent Changes". But it doesn't seem too bad. Who's been putting in the hard work?

[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 21:14, 3 November 2013 (GMT)

==Deccan Ribobe, again==
Here's a conundrum. I have (technically) the power of a Bureaucrat, but no moral authority. I spent about two years campaigning against the blather and bloat and grafitti that threatens to make the wiki as relevant as a Justin Blieber forum and got no support. The consensus was that anyone should be allowed his opportunity to put his tag on the wall, never mind the readability or authority of the wiki. We have since lost most of our valuable contributors and standing with search engines (although this might also be blamed on disruption by spam attacks and a change of host).

I always felt that a wiki was a community effort, and there was no point in my (or anyone else's) imposing a single preference and this seemed to be the opinion of the founder, [[User:Sanity|Sanity]]. Now, however, there is no community, no active staff beside myself and no hope in sight. Bloat advances and no one volunteers to improve the wiki rather than expanding it.

We have depended on the prodigious input of [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] for many years, but he's disappeared, along with other clever if less voluminous contributors. I doubt if I could keep up physically with onslaught of grafitti artists without help: is there no one interested in improving the project rather than just adding his two cents' worth? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 02:07, 15 October 2013 (GMT)

:Honestly, in the last year I've gotten married, changed jobs, been expecting a baby, lost said baby :( and several other items which have kept me super busy. All I've done lately is check for spam and make sure the system is still running. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 12:14, 15 October 2013 (GMT)

:I would be around more but school stuff suddenly came out of no where and so far has shown no sign of stopping. Hopefully in a few weeks stuff will slow down and I will be able to spend some time on here. --[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] ([[User talk:Zdm|talk]]) 04:49, 18 October 2013 (GMT)

[[Category:Wiki Data|Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum/Archive 4]]

The Mu Kappa Pi Caper

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This is an illustration of a multiversally binding law, one which decrees that just as any tape left in a car stereo for any length of time becomes a Queen album, any book taken on holiday, however worthy, will mutate into an adventure thriller with at least three Greek ( or [[Ephebe]]an) letters in the title. [[Ly Tin Wheedle]], if asked, might say it's one of those things...

[[Category:Good Omens]]

1855 UC

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Year of the Significant Triangle

*[[Windle Poons]] born

[[Category:Discworld Timeline]]

Talk:1688 UC

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Wasn't 1688 also a year of civil unrest in Britain culminating in a Bill of Rights that took more powers from the Monarchy and transferred them to Parliament?--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 23:04, 13 February 2008 (CET)

Yes, the year of the overthrow of King James II, by the grace of God (he thought) King of England. Not by Roundheads, though, no Old Stoneface, not even a short interregnum; a fresh king was imported from Holland. This was called, oddly enough, the [[Glorious Revolution]]. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:52, 13 February 2008 (CET)

1688 UC

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2126 AM

* Grune 4: [[Ankh-Morpork Civil War]]
* [[Lorenzo the Kind]], last King of Ankh-Morpork, beheaded by [[Ankh-Morpork City Watch|Watch]] Commander [["Stoneface" Vimes|Suffer-Not-Injustice Vimes]]

[[Category:Discworld Timeline]]

1576 UC

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*Assassins' School becomes a [[Guilds of Ankh-Morpork|Royal Guild]].

[[Category:Discworld Timeline]]

1561 UC

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*[[Veltrick I]] becomes [[Monarchy|King of Ankh]]; assassinated four days later by his son, who succeeds him as Veltrick II
*During his brief reign, Veltrick I founds the [[City Watch]]

[[Category:Discworld Timeline]]

1512 UC

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*Sir Gyles de Munforte founds the de Munforte School for [[Assassins' Guild|Gentleman Assassins]]

[[Category:Discworld Timeline]]

14 UC

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*[[Alberto Malich]] performs the [[Rite of AshkEnte]] backwards, enters [[Death's Domain]] and becomes his valet.

[[Category: Discworld Timeline|14]]

130 Days of Pseudopolis

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Mentioned in {{P}}, this book is similar to [[The Shuttered Palace]], except that, according to [[Ptraci]], it includes physically impossible positions.

==Annotation==

The Roundworld referent is most probably the Marquis de Sade's '''''120 Days of Sodom''''', in which the positions are not completely physically impossible, but would involve a great deal of physical discomfort at the very least, and excruciating physical pain at the very worst. De Sade builds his unique personal philosophy in which he defines a basic human right to do anything he damn well likes to anyone he damn well chooses - allowing them only the right to become a sadist to others in their own turn (should they survive). As the book defines a sort of Fascist philosophy of human sexuality, this was filmed by Pasolini as a satire on the last days of Mussolini's Italy.

[[Category: Discworld publications]]
[[de:Die 130 Tage in Pseudopolis]]

1196 UC

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(1880 by the Ankh-Morpork calendar.) The [[Diet of Bugs]] convenes in the town of [[Bugs]], in [[Überwald]]. Among other resolutions, it outlaws production of silver and garlic in the [[Unholy Empire]].

[[Category:Discworld Timeline]]

100 Walks in the Ramtops

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''100 Walks in the Ramtops'' is one of the [[Discworld (world)|Disc's]] most famous books on rambling, written by the somewhat over-zealous [[Eric Wheelbrace]]. It is a guide to all the best routes to walk around the [[Ramtops]] Mountains, stopping at every place of historical or natural interest, and in '''no way''' recognising such Petty Attempts to Inhibit our Gods-Given '''Right to Roam''' as national or species borders, clan territories or angry mobs.

==Annotation==
It is based on the [[Roundworld]] book: ''A Pictorial Guide to the Lakeland Fells'' by [[wikipedia:Alfred Wainwright|Alfred Wainwright]].

[[Category:Discworld culture]]
[[Category:Discworld publications]]

Talk:.303 Bookworm

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U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Talk:.303 Bookworm to Talk:.303 Bookworm on Wheels!

This may take the analogy to the British army cartridge a bit too far, or it's employing journalistic arithmetic. The diameter of a .303 ''bullet'' is .311-.312 inches; .303 is the land diameter of the barrel. The bullet can vary in length but a maximum is about 1.18in. If we're thinking of the whole cartridge, it's over three inches. The .303 bullet would travel at three times the speed of light on Discworld, causing problems with Quantum. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 20:45, 17 February 2008 (CET)

.303 Bookworm

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U mad bro: U mad bro moved page .303 Bookworm to .303 Bookworm on Wheels!

A small creature that has evolved in the highly [[magic|magically]] charged environment of the [[Unseen University]]. Because magical books are often dangerous, the .303 bookworm has evolved to eat books at incredibly high speeds. It can often be found shooting out of books, ricocheting off the opposite wall. This presumes that unlike other maggots, it has an incredibly hard carapace, as a normal pupated lifeform at those speeds would just go "splat", which means it misses out on the next stage of its personal development (the chrysalis followed by the mature insect). In fact, going "splat" at the worm stage would mean the species dies out, as only the mature adult may breed the next generation of .303 bookworms... so there ''must'' be some sort of hard resilient carapace enabling the creature to survive the ricochet. By extension, a direct hit on anyone standing in the way would be fatal?). This makes it the fastest animal on the Disc (saving only the [[Ambiguous Puzuma]]– unfortunately, a race would be hard to arrange and impossible to judge, due to quantum uncertainty.)

==Annotation==

.303 was for over sixty years the standard rifle calibre of the British armed forces. It is clear that librarianship on the Disc often requires a bullet-proofed vest or an armoured book trolley whilst re-shelving.

We can also make an informed stab at the size of a .303 Bookworm: if its base calibre, or ''width'', is a uniform .303", by association its ''length'' must be about 1 and 5/8" (ie, the length of a standard .303 bullet) and for aerodynamic efficiency, there would be a gradual taper along its length to a blunt point. As it takes in ink, gilding, binding glue and colouring matter in addition to edible parchment, one might hypothesise that the creature does not excrete as such: any indigestible matter, perhaps metals extracted from book-related matter it consumes, are extruded out to form the aforementioned hard carapace, which takes the form of a tapering metal cone... (Would the genesis for the [[Gonne]] have been [[Leonard of Quirm]]'s harmless and inoffensive nature studies of the life-cycle of the .303 Bookworm?)

[[Category:Discworld Flora & Fauna|Bookworm, .303]]
[[de:Bücherwurm .303]]

Talk:-ing

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...two syllables, isn't it?--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 15:21, 31 May 2007 (CEST)

Do we really need this article? If there was more than one character speaking like this but... --[[User:Death|Death]] 15:24, 31 May 2007 (CEST)

Nearly eight years on.... there '''''is''''' another character who speaks like this and she's also in {{TT}}. But blink and you miss her... [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 19:01, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

:Of course not, but it's getting to be a long list. I can't figure out if it matters how many small or semi-relevant articles there are, except to Sanity's hard-drive space, and I doubt if the whole Wiki is dangerously large yet. Maybe there should be a trivia category?--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 15:33, 31 May 2007 (CEST)
:Ten years on, I'm tempted to change it to "word", but it may have passed the statute of limitations and acquired historical immunity. Perhaps the audible effect of "_" isn't really a syllable? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 03:33, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

The part about Mr Tulip is wrong. When he says it, it's not a swear word. It's his speech impediment that makes him say "-ing". People around him misunderstand and think he's swearing; that's the joke. (unsigned comment by [[User:SanityClaus|SanityClaus]] 6 Jul 2019.)

-ing

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[[Mr. Tulip]]'s favourite syllable. This conveys a lot of very specific meaning in one small space, as in the discussion of an antique virginal:

''So called because it was an instrument for –ing young ladies!'' 
''My word, was it? I thought it was just a sort of early piano!''

It also has its uses in polite discourse when one does not want to have to ''completely'' spell it out.

[[Sacharissa Cripslock]] knows all about "-ing". Apparently her [[Credenza|old teacher]] resorted to it a lot, but approached the phenomenon from the opposite angle; she was a [[Nuns|nun]] who wanted to convey the impresssion without committing the sin of using any actual words. Indeed, towards the end of {{TT}}, when dealing with [[Ronald Carney]], Sacharissa herself gleefully lets fly with a whole heavy bomber's payload of -ing's.

Reference [[Harga's House of Ribs|Love In A Canoe Coffee]] and [[Lu-Tze|Sna-Fu]], where an ''–ing'' needs to be hazarded to convey the derivation of the phrase, without turning the Wiki blue.

[[Category:Discworld concepts]]

-2564 UC

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The founding of [[Ankh-Morpork]]. This is the year 1 of the old Ankh-Morporkian [[Discworld calendar|calendar]].

[[Category:Discworld Timeline]]

{{stub}}

'Three Wizards' Chardonnay

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A white wine much in evidence at banquets in the [[Great Hall]] at [[Unseen University]]. Are there any other meals served?1

1Oh, [[Unseen University Mealtimes|yes, lots]]

[[Category:Food and drink]]
[[de:Drei Zauberer]]

"Whacko" Whopply

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Referenced in {{MM}}, the Reverend Brother "Whacko" Whopply is a dual-qualified Clown and Priest. It is not clear which [[The gods|God]] he has dedicated his life to (although [[Hoki]] or [[Nog-Humpty]] are definite possibilities), but in the context, he appears to be the Chaplain to the [[Fools' Guild]]. He officiates the marriage of [[Mavolio Bent]] to Miss [[Drapes]] in the Chapel of Fun and is referenced in the {{FGD}}. He also owns an appealing small dog called Tinkle. who may ''look'' small, puppyish and frail with delightfully soulful big eyes. But appearances deceive.

[[Category: Discworld characters|Whopply, "Whako"]]

"Rubber" Ramkin

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U mad bro: U mad bro moved page "Rubber" Ramkin to "Rubber" Ramkin on Wheels!

First name as yet unknown, this was an uncle of [[Sybil Ramkin]] who had a monomaniac fascination with rubber and all its uses. He is said to have designed a prototypical fixed-wing flying machine, and all went well with its maden voyage right up until the moment the rubber band snapped. He is also responsible, in sa rare moment of interest in materials other than rubber, for the master bathroom at [[Crundells]] and all its interesting features.

==Annotation==

to Sir George Cayley (1773-1857) who demonstrated a practical working glider - in recognisibly modern aircraft proportions and configuration - as early as 1804. In 1853, the first manned glider, a Cayley design, flew successfully.

Among the many things that he developed are self-righting lifeboats, tension-spoke wheels, the "Universal Railway" (his term for caterpillar tractors), automatic signals for railway crossings, seat belts, small scale helicopters, and a kind of prototypical internal combustion engine fuelled by gunpowder. He also contributed in the fields of prosthetics, air engines, electricity, theatre architecture, ballistics, optics and land reclamation, and held the belief that these advancements should be freely available. Definitely a more successful [[Bloody Stupid Johnson]] crossed with [[Leonard of Quirm]].

[[Category:Discworld characters|Ramkin, "Rubber"]]

"Rubber" Houser

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U mad bro: U mad bro moved page "Rubber" Houser to "Rubber" Houser on Wheels!

'''"Rubber" Houser''' was a student at [[Unseen University]] at the same time as the [[Bursar]]. He was described as "a reflective sort of boy".

In an attempt to circumvent the University's punishment of writing out lines, Houser scrounged some bits of wood and stripped a mattress of its springs to design the [[Graphical Device]]. This device began as a four-line writing machine, but eventually became capable of writing sixteen and thirty-two lines at once. Houser's invention became extremely popular- students would break rules so they could have a go at using the Graphical Device (for threepence to use it and a penny to help wind it up). Eventually, Houser's experiments came to an end when someone opened a wrong door and the pent-up force of his prototype 256-line writing machine propelled Houser out of a fourth floor window.

In {{TLC}}, the Bursar found himself at the creation of [[Fourecks]]. There, the [[Creator (of the Continent XXXX)|Creator of the continent]] was tracing lines on rock in order to create the creatures that would populate the new land. This reminded the Bursar of Houser (except for the absence of screams).

It is not known if "Rubber" Houser is somehow related to [[Berenice Houser]].

[[Category:Discworld characters|Houser,"Rubber"]]
[[Category:Human characters|Houser,"Rubber"]]
[[Category:Wizards|Houser,"Rubber"]]

"Hiho" song

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Mentioned in {{MP}}, this is a song dwarves sing in the click ''Tales of the Dwarfes''. Like many dwarf songs, it has very few words.
Bears a striking similarity to the song the seven dwarves sing in 'Snow White'. (Hiho, hiho...) Later on a risque version is performed in the click [[Blown Away]].
Mentioned in {{SM}} as the only Dwarf song not about gold.

[[Category: Discworld culture]]

Talk:"Great Leveller" Cart-Mounted Ten-Bank 500-Pound Crossbow

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U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Talk:"Great Leveller" Cart-Mounted Ten-Bank 500-Pound Crossbow to Talk:"Great Leveller" Cart-Mounted Ten-Bank 500-Pound Crossbow on Wheels!

See Discovery Channel's Mythbusters Season 8 Episode 22 ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpDqC9KMuH4] around the 2min mark) for a roundworld example of a gravity fed repeating crossbow. Given that their version used a wooden rather than steel bow and still managed to be reasonable accurate and powerful at 200yds I'd be more than scared of anything Messrs Burliegh and Stronginthearm were selling. --[[User:Megahurts|Megahurts]] 16:02, 14 November 2010 (CET)

Adam Hart-Davis, too, the slightly loopy presenter of "What did the Romans ever do for us?", helped rebuild a repeating crossbow of the sort General (later Emperor) Vespasian used to break British resistance in the Devon hill-forts. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/romans/tech_01.shtml]

Now imagine Detritus armed with a repeater...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 16:12, 14 November 2010 (CET)

"Great Leveller" Cart-Mounted Ten-Bank 500-Pound Crossbow

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U mad bro: U mad bro moved page "Great Leveller" Cart-Mounted Ten-Bank 500-Pound Crossbow to "Great Leveller" Cart-Mounted Ten-Bank 500-Pound Crossbow on Wheels!

'''The "Great Leveller" Cart-Mounted Ten-Bank 500-Pound Crossbow''' is one of [[Burleigh and Stronginthearm|Burleigh and Stronginthearm's]] finest pieces of modern weaponry, much sought after by the [[Klatch|Klatchian]] military in their War of Pacification against the [[D'reg|D'regs]].

From context, presumably it's either ten [[Piecemaker|Piecemakers]] mounted on a cart or - intriguingly - a single 500-pound draw crossbow (mechanically drawn) with some system of gravity feed, as used in the [[Hersheba|Hershebian]] twelve-shot bows with the gravity feed mentioned by [[Nobby]] in {{MAA}}. This is where, once one bolt has been fired, the next automatically drops into place as the string is winched back so that the rate of fire is higher. If this is the case, a 500-pound draw rapid-fire siege weapon must be one hell of a sight to see in the hands of your enemy, even if you are a D'reg...

[[Category:Devices|Great Leveller Cart-Mounted Ten-Bank 500-Pound Crossbow]]

"Fingers" Mazda

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The very first [[Thieves' Guild|thief]] to emerge on the Disc. He stole the secret of fire from [[The gods|the Gods]] and, even though he got his fingers burnt on the deal and it was hard to fence, is revered even today by Thieves everywhere.

The story is explored further in {{TLH}}, where we learn that the Gods, out of respect for his audacity and because they are sentimental about some things, granted Fingers immortality. But because the Gods are also just, and because they wanted make a VERY big point about what happens to people who dare steal things from [[Dunmanifestin]], they decreed that he spend his immortality trapped in a place found on no map, chained to a rock, where once a day a very big eagle flies down and pecks his liver out. (It is assumed that the liver regenerates overnight).

Mazda was eventually freed by [[Cohen]] and the [[Silver Horde]], who took it in turns to shake him reverentially by the hand, gifted him a ''very'' big sharp sword, and departed. That eagle is in for something of a surprise... as is the Discworld, now its first and greatest thief is free again - and immortal, with a self-regenerating body to boot...

==Annotation==

Bears more than a passing resemblance to the Greek legend of [[wikipedia:Prometheus|Prometheus]], which shares many characteristics with the tale of "Fingers" Mazda...

In [[wikipedia:Zoroastrianism|Zoroastrianism]] (incidentally the birth religion of Queen singer Freddie Mercury) '''Ahura Mazda''' is the creator and highest divinity, whose visible presence in the world is manifested through fire.

Strauss' ''Also Sprach Zarathustra'', known better as the music from ''2001 - A Space Odyssey'', is an attempt to recapture the moment the light of Mazda was born into the world.

Artist Maxfield Parrish painted a calendar series for the Edison Mazda Lamp Division in the 1920s. They were extremely popular and widely distributed. One of the paintings features Prometheus stealing fire, with the words “Edison Mazda” at the top. [https://www.google.com/search?q=mazda+prometheus+parrish+wikipedia&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjD167kxr3bAhVhzVQKHdQGD1QQ_AUIESgB&biw=375&bih=537#imgrc=WoEdZYKIpE5gIM: Maxfield Parrish’s Prometheus]
:
[[Category:Supernatural entities|Mazda, Fingers]]
[[de:Langfinger Mazda]]

"Fartmeister" Carter

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[[Trevor Likely]]'s shabby and disreputable best friend. He lives, forgotten almost by his own family, in a leaky ill-favoured attic papered with centrefolds from [[Girls, Giggles and Garters]].

Carter could benefit by laundering his clothes more often, washing more often, and refraining from the physical ability from which his nickname is conferred.

While a loyal friend to Trev, which gets him seriously battered by the hard men, Carter is weak-willed, indecisive, and will run with the crowd rather than think for himself.

==Annotation==

The star professional footballer let down by a bad choice of best friend who can so easily become a leech on him. Think of the role played by Jimmy "Two-Bellies" in the drink-related downfall of genuinely gifted flawed legend Paul Gascoigne - an ill-advised best friend who Gascoigne could not bear to lose on becoming famous and who provided embarrassment at best, and career-destroying drunken benders at worst.

Or virtually the entire Rooney family, a clan of Liverpool scallies so notorious that the fragrant Coleen wanted to exclude the entire tribe from her wedding to Wayne.

[[Category:Discworld characters|Carter,Fartmeister]]
[[Category:Human characters|Carter,Fartmeister]]

Talk:Opera

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U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Talk:Opera to Talk:Opera on Wheels!

Why is ''Il Trovatore'' left out? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 15:07, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

:Because I don't know enough about opera to get'em all. Put it in by all means [[User:Iron Hippo|Iron Hippo]] 15:26, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

::Fixed it -- [[User:Iron Hippo|Iron Hippo]] 15:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh. I supposed you were doing it because you were an opera fan. ''Bloodaxe & Ironhammer'' is much like
"Tristan und Isolde", too, although the story's mixed with "Romeo and Juliet" (Gounod.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 18:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

:Was ''Chicken Lake'' described as an opera? {Ballet might be mounted at the Opera House, too, but it ain't opera.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:49, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

::It is "pretentious high-brow culture" so I thought it would fit right in. Ballet as part of an opera or a performance of just ballet; same pretentious audience. --[[User:Iron Hippo|Iron Hippo]] 06:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
::Should maybe think about changing opening paragraph to Opera and other pretentious culture. I'll mull it over--[[User:Iron Hippo|Iron Hippo]] 06:22, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Nanny Ogg joins the chorus line of ballet dancers employed by the Opera House and there's an early reference to Bucket complaining about the fabulous cost of ballet shoes, so ballet is definitely on the repertoire at the OH [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 18:21, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

== Stub begone! ==
I dropped the stub, it's mostly done. Sound off if you think otherwise [[User:Iron Hippo|Iron Hippo]] 02:30, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Lohenshaak==
Here's me only noticing the resemblance to ''loan shark''. No imagination. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 21:47, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== I assumed Lohenshaak… ==

… was a take on Lohengrin, and Love Shack. However, I then sounded it out and got Loan Shark. Considering that the swan sings "Schneide meinen eigenen Halls…" ("cut my own throat…") and Sir Terry's penchant for multiple puns, I'm guessing: all three. :D

Opera

2021-10-20T13:41:53Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Opera to Opera on Wheels!

The only difference between '''Opera''' and madness is (according to [[Salzella]]) better scenery. The plot doesn't make any sense and relies entirely on people not recognizing their servants and husbands, mostly because the plot is just there to fill in time until the next song.

Opera is expensive. It doesn't make money--you put money in, and you get ''Opera'' out. And ballet shoes are very expensive. Very few things are more expensive than ballet shoes; violins just happen to be one of them. If you think there is passion onstage, you should see backstage. Everybody hates everybody and half the crew won't speak to each other.

Whistling on stage, live flowers, wearing new makeup on opening night and yellow are Bad Luck, but more horrific than these is stopping a performance: THE SHOW MUST GO ON[[Multiple exclamation marks|!!!!!]]

Operas are performed mainly at the [[Opera House]] in [[Ankh-Morpork]], in [[Bugarup]], in [[Genua]] and [[Brindisi]] as well as in various [[Dwarfs|Dwarfish]] and [[Trolls|Trollish]] venues.

== Roundworld Versions ==

Most operas resemble [[Roundworld]] operas.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:left" border="1" cellpadding="3"
|+Operas
|-
! Discworld opera
! Roundworld opera
! Roundworld composer
|-
| ''Die Meistersinger von Scrote''
| {{wp|Die_Meistersinger_von_Nürnberg|Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg}}
| {{wp|Wagner|Wagner}}
|-
| ''Die Postmeistersinger von Überwald''
| {{wp|Die_Meistersinger_von_Nürnberg|Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg}}
| {{wp|Wagner|Wagner}}
|-
| ''The Ring of the Nibelungingung''
| {{wp|The_Ring_of_the_Nibelung|The Ring of the Nibelung}}
| Wagner
|-
| ''Lohenshaak''
| {{wp|Lohengrin_(opera)|Lohengrin}}
| Wagner
|-
| ''Chicken lake
| {{wp|Swan_Lake|Swan lake}}
| {{wp|Pyotr_Ilyich_Tchaikovsky|Tchaikovsky}}
|-
| ''The Barber of Pseudopolis''
| {{wp|The_Barber_of_Seville|The Barber of Seville}}
| {{wp|Rossini|Rossini}}
|-
| ''La Triviata''
| {{wp|La_Traviata|La Traviata}}
| {{wp|Verdi|Verdi}}
|-
| ''Il Truccatore''
| {{wp|Il_Trovatore|Il Trovatore}}
| Verdi
|-
| ''The Enchanted Piccolo''
| {{wp|The_Magic_Flute|The Magic Flute}}
| {{wp|Mozart|Mozart}}
|-
| ''Cosi fan Hita''
| {{wp|cosi_fan_tutte|Cosi fan Tutte}}
| Mozart
|-
| ''Miserable Les''
| {{wp|Les_Miserables|Les Miserables}}
| {{wp|Victor_Hugo|Hugo}}/{{wp|Arnold_Schoenberg|Schönberg}}
|-
| ''Guys and Trolls''
| {{wp|Guys_and_Dolls|Guys and Dolls}}
| {{wp|Frank_Loesser|Loesser}}
|-
| ''Hubwards Side Story''
| {{wp|West_Side_Story|West Side Story}}
| {{wp|Leonard_Bernstein|Bernstein}}/{{wp|Stephen_Sondheim|Sondheim}}
|-
| ''[[Ich Bin Ein Rattarsedschwein|The Student Horse]]''
| {{wp|The_Student_Prince|The Student Prince}}
| {{wp|Sigmund Romberg|Sigmund Romberg}}
|-
| ''Seven Dwarfs for Seven Other Dwarfs''
| {{wp|Seven_Brides_for_Seven_Brothers_(musical)|Seven Brides for Seven Brothers}}
| Kasha/Hirschhorn
|-
| ''[[Bloodaxe and Ironhammer]]''
| Inconclusive, see separate article
| -
|-
| ''Walter Plinge's unfinished''
| {{wp|The_Phantom_of_the_Opera_(1986_musical)|The Phantom of the Opera}}
| {{wp|Gaston_Leroux|Leroux}}/{{wp|Andrew_Lloyd_Webber|Lloyd-Webber}}
|-
| ''Die Zaubebriefmarkenalbum von Überwald''
| {{wp|The_Magic_Flute|The Magic Flute}}
| {{wp|Mozart|Mozart}}
|}

== Annotations ==

=== Ring ===
[[Salzella]] sells ''The Ring of the Nibel.....'' a bit short when he calls it "Three days of gods screaming at each other". The Roundworld {{wp|The_Ring_of_the_Nibelung|counterpart}} has '''four''' days of gods screaming at each other, for a running time of 15 to 17 hours depending on the pacing of the conductor.

=== Meistersinger ===
The German {{wp|Nuremberg| city of Nürnberg}} has a rich history in culture and science, particularly astronomy and grand historic architecture, the city of [[Scrote]] less so.
Nürnberg boasts the {{wp|Nuremberg_Castle|Nürnberg Castle}}, [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heilig-Geist-Spital_(N%C3%BCrnberg) the Hospital of the Holy Spirit] and several notewothy {{wp|St._Lorenz_(N%C3%BCrnberg)| cathedrals}}. Scrote merely boasts.

Several Nazi rallies were held in Nürnberg. Scrote has at least something to be proud of.

=== Lohenshaak ===
May be a take on the opera ''Lohengrin'', but going downmarket by many notches, it also calls to mind the B-52's dance-floor filling stomper ''Love Shack''.

[[Category:Discworld culture]]
[[Category:Locations]]
[[de:Oper]]

Three-quarters of a teddy bear

2021-10-20T13:41:38Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Three-quarters of a teddy bear to Three-quarters of a teddy bear on Wheels!

Three-quarters of a teddy bear is mentioned two times in the Discworld universe and seems to be a possible link between [[Tiffany Aching]] and [[Maurice]]

First, in {{TAM}}: ''Once, when he was no more than a kitten, he'd been taken home by a small girl who'd dressed him up in doll's clothes and sat him at a small table with a couple of dolls and '''three-quarters of a teddy bear.'''''

And secondly in {{WFM}}: ''Last time Tiffany had tried to arrange a party, the guests had been a rag doll with no head, two wooden soldiers, and '''three quarters of a small teddy bear'''''

And, [[Mr. Wuggle|a three-limbed teddy bear]] is famed in the history of the Assassins' Guild.

'''The NEW Discworld Companion:''' ''One exhibit which usually exercises the minds of boys for many a long night is the one-armed teddy bear (Mr Wuggle) used by Croydon Minimus to inhume the Baron von Wendeltreppe-Stecken- pferd in 1687.''

[[Category:Things]]

Departments

2021-10-20T13:41:29Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Departments to Departments on Wheels!

The different tribes and clans of [[nomes]] inhabiting the Arnold Bros [[store]] in the [[Bromeliad]] series name themselves after the departments of the store in which they live. Formerly they were openly at war with each other, nowadays the [[Stationeri]] keep them in line and the feuds are simmering at a lower heat.

Notable Departments include:
* The [[Stationeri]], priests of [[Arnold Bros (est. 1905)]]
* The [[Dorcas del Icatessen|del Icatessen]], powerful because of their access to food.
* The [[Count de Ironmongri|Ironmongri]], powerful because they have access to tools and metal goods.
* The [[Cido de Haberdasheri|Haberdasheri]], a department headed by a warlike Duke, father of [[Angalo de Haberdasheri]]. Often brightly dressed because they have access to fancy fabrics.
* The Corsetri, bandits who rob others because they have little useful to trade (human women's underwear being useless to nomes)
* The [[Kiddie-Klothians]] mystical people who live on a high floor and eat a lot of yoghurt from the staff lunchroom. A parody of New-Age idealised images of Tibetans.

[[Category:Bromeliad]]

Book:The Long Earth/Annotations

2021-10-20T13:41:15Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Book:The Long Earth/Annotations to Book:The Long Earth/Annotations on Wheels!

Annotations for [[Book:The Long Earth|The Long Earth]]:

''"He ([[Percy Blakeney]]) tried French anyway. 'Parley Buffon say?'"''
- He probably meant to say something like 'parlez-vous français'

''''' Doubleday Edition (UK) p81:-''''' Philip José Farmer's '''''Riverworld''''' series of novels are a classic in speculative fiction. The central premis is that the whole of the human race, everyone who has ever lived (as well as related species advanced enough to share aspects of humanity, like neanderthals and other hominids) have been resurrected on a massive planet known as the Riverworld. One River meanders in long lazy spirals around the world's surface. People have been reborn in approximate chronological order in their social or tribal units. It is possible to die here, but you are simply reborn somewhere else in the riverworld in a new body. Everyone is permanently 25 and sickness has been erased. But people who on Earth were thinkers and explorers are not content. Some attempt to "step" around the planet by repeatedly dying or commiting suicide, so as to experience life in as many places as possible. On a deliberately mineral-poor planet, others, including Samuel Clement (author Mark Twain) exploit a meteorite strike (iron-rich) to smelt materials and build boats - and ''airships'' - to explore the Riverworld from above. One such airship on the Riverworld is actually called the ''Mark Twain''....

''''' Doubleday Edition (UK) p131:-''''' The reference to the "trolls" as Mighty Joes. Another shout-out to Philip José Farmer's '''''Riverworld''''', a book about a sort of alternate Earth, where representatives of a humanoid group which predated humans are ressurrected alongside the whole of the human race. A ''Titanothrop'' adopted and taught English by "Samuel Clement"'s group of adventurers is nicknamed Joe....

''''' Doubleday Edition (UK) p150:-''''' Tracklements again. See note for [[Trucklement's Yummy Assortment|this entry.]]

''''' Doubleday Edition (UK) p214:-''''' ''And once, a flapping, spinning, thing that looked for all the world like an octopus, spinning like a frisbee through the canopy trees. How the hell had that got there?''

Terry being whimsical, perhaps: a shout-out to {{N}} and the [[Tree-Climbing Octopus]].

''''' Doubleday Edition (UK) p243:-''''' The settlement of Happy Landings, a town founded by humans who inadvertently learnt to step, and who appear to come from all ages and times in human history on Datum Earth. Another nod to Riverworld, where the continuous death and ressurection cycle spreads people evenly around the planet, who are discovering that "anarchist~" communes, in the classic interpretation, are the only way small human societies can live. Or perhaps to michael Moorcock's creation of Tanelorn - a refuge for those tired of serving Gods, a place where people from all over the Multiverse choose to find peace. Under frequent attacks from the gods of Chaos...

''''' Doubleday Edition (UK) p260:-''''' the '''''Long Chant''''' of the trolls. Trollsong is a way of preserving and communicating information around the whole of the species. In {{T!}}, reference is made to the Long Chant of the trolls on Discworld. Is this Tery recycling what at present is a throwaway, undeveloped, idea on Discworld and using a different vehicle to elaborate on the theme?

''''' Doubleday Edition (UK) p282:-''''' The power of [[potato]]es for the random traveller, in preserving sanity and providing a potent reminder of home and familiar things. Joshua is evoking [[Rincewind]]?

''''' Doubleday Edition (UK) p306:-''''' "First Person Singular", the [[Kraken|Leviathan]]-like sentient being, is twenty-three miles long by five miles wide. Hmmm. A shout-out to Shea and Wilson's ''Illuminatus!'' trilogy, where Leviathan (and shipboard supercomputer FirstUniversalCybernetic/KineticUnifiedProgram) gains sentience by speaking the word "I". 23 and 5 are also ''very'' special numbers in "Illuminatus!"

[[Category:Annotations|Long Earth,The]]

Zoons

2021-10-20T13:41:05Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Zoons to Zoons on Wheels!

A race of people who, like the [[N'Tuitif]] of [[Howondaland]], are pathologically incapable of lying. This is a drawback in a trading race, so the Zoons elect a [[Tribal Liar]] to do the negotiating for them. Other people get offended by this and think they should have picked a more acceptable term, like "diplomat" or "politician". The Zoons reply that this is exactly the point.

The Zoons run cargo barges between [[Ankh-Morpork]] and the hinterland. They'll also carry passengers, but presumably charge high prices, and, ironically, not many people trust them. The Zoons, from evidence presented in {{CDA}}, are ideally located to take advantage of four major rivers for the barge trade: as well as the [[Ankh]], their home area straddles the headwaters of the rivers [[Quire]], [[Koom Valley|Koom]] and [[Sour]], all of which are major waterways leading down to the [[Circle Sea]] and serving large cities and population areas. {{CDA}} notes they are also well represented on the run down the Quire into [[Quirm]].

[[Esk]] runs into them in the form of [[Amschat B'hal Zoon]], who was the current Liar at the time of {{ER}}.

[[Category:Groups]]

Roraty Williams

2021-10-20T13:40:50Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Roraty Williams to Roraty Williams on Wheels!

A [[Wizards|wizard]] who suffered from the worst attack of [[Planets]] known to magic or medicine. This lasted for many years and culminated in one of the planets, magically called into being and orbiting around his head, evolving an advanced spacefaring civilisation that developed powered spacecraft and sent an invasion fleet out to conquer and colonise the inside of his head. They boldly went, in fact, where no other little grey alien had gone before and made First Contact inside his right ear. Other orifices followed. It is not related in ''[[Household Medicine, Hair-Care and Simple Surgery‎]]'' as to how this unfortunate case was resolved, if at all.

==Annotation==
In ''The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy'', a mile-high statue of Arthur Dent suffers the indignity of having its left ear colonised by a race of more-or-less sentient birds, who, like all birds, are horribly incontinent. To the perspective of ''his'' aliens, Rorarty Williams would stand at least a mile high...

[[Category: Wizards]]

Pollution

2021-10-20T13:40:37Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Pollution to Pollution on Wheels!

Pollution is one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse in ''[[Good Omens]]''. Pollution took the place of [[Pestilence]] after the latter retired because of the advent of antibiotics. He took the form as a young man with boyish features. While waiting for the Apocalypse, he caused oil spills and other forms of large scale Pollution.

[[Category:Good Omens characters]]
[[Category:Supernatural entities]]

{{stub}}

Whobblebury

2021-10-20T13:40:23Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Whobblebury to Whobblebury on Wheels!

Described by Tolliver Groat as 'a pen pusher' who can push a pen into some unusual places, with some force. Mr Whobblebury was a [[Dark Clerk]] working for [[Vetinari]].

After the deaths of the last three occupants of the job Post Master General, Vetinari appointed a man with more skill at defending himself and could report back as to why the [[Ankh-Morpork Post Office|Post Office]] seemed to be cursed and his attempts to re-open it were failing. In this role Whobblebury was always snooping around the building. Tragedy struck when he found and closely inspected the Mail Sorting Engine created by [[Bergholt Stuttley Johnson]]. The post office staff were first alerted to his demise when the cat, [[Mr Tiddles]], came in carrying a bit of him. In the words of Stanley; "His head was all over the wall!!".

After that the sorting room was locked, and Vetinari was forced to look elsewhere for a [[Moist von Lipwig|candidate]].

[[Category:Discworld characters]]
[[Category:Human characters]]

Talk:The gods

2021-10-20T13:40:05Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Talk:The gods to Talk:The gods on Wheels!

Would this work better as a category that's a subcategory of [[:Category: Supernatural entities]]? [[User:Kellyterryjones|Kellyterryjones]] 20:57, 22 December 2007 (CET)

:It probably would. (likewise for [[Demons]]). --[[User:Sanity|Sanity]] 13:30, 23 December 2007 (CET)

Are we sure Resonata, Bissonomy and especially Epidity are in Dunmanifestin? They don't sound like first-row deities. (Sure, Nuggan doesn't either, but he did command a whole country.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 15:49, 24 December 2007 (CET)

According to the glimpse we get into Chaffinch's seminal work in {{W}}, Bissonomy certainly ain't - she was turned into a shower of oysters after a fight, current location unknown, and has since been downgraded to a Virtue. (Who is to know the ways of gods, who we are assured move in mysterious ways...). So you're right, if she's in the wrong section I'll move her. But Epidity, God of Potatoes... remember the potato cult of which mr Pin was a believer, and which appears to be gaining ground in Ankh-Morpork? (mentioned in {{MM}}). I'd leave him be?

--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 16:00, 24 December 2007 (CET)

Isn't is fate who always wins, not destiny. --[[User:Confusion|Confusion]] ([[User talk:Confusion|talk]]) 05:52, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

== The God who was offered to the Librarian, with potentially disastrous consequences ==

OK... Hanuman is actually the Hindu monkey-god.

Sun-wukong is the Chinese equivalent, or one of them. In Japan he becomes Sungoku. Thought by scholars to be ultimately reflections of the Hindu God, according to Wiki.

However, the Librarian was not amused that the presumption was made that this was his God...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 22:40, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

:Wonderful scholarship which could be included in a [[Monkey-god]] article, but it didn't fit on a single line. (Originally I was only offended by the layout; then It struck me that Hanuman was Indian as well.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 00:14, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
:Son Goku is the star of a modern Japanese animation called ''Dragon Ball'' and a multimedia ''Saiyuki'' character. Sun Wukong seems to have travelled from China to India and taken the form of Hanuman as he was wont to do. Definite confusion there. The Japanese remain divided between Shinto and Buddhism, neither of which they observe very closely and neither of which includes animal gods. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 01:02, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==

Yeah, thaks TC01. Glad I made the effort to make it easier to read yesterday.--[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 18:00, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

:If you want to space it out a bit more, we could use level 3 headings instead of level 2 headings, as I've done below, or some of the spaces could be put back in as long as they don't cause empty bullet points to appear. [[User:TC01|TC01]] 18:21, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

::That's an awful lot better, but I balked at it because there are so many other pages where this would be necessary if we decided to go for a generic format. I just thought an extra space would make it easier on the eye (and on my brain). Didn't I get rid of all the extra bullets? I thought I'd been pretty meticulous...--[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 18:25, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

:::I was still seeing some between the headings ("God of Dunmanifesten", "Other Gods of the Main Continent") and the lists under those headings. Like this:

*Title

**Stuff
**More stuff

:::Do you see the empty bullet point? Anyway, for now, I'll put the extra spaces that definitely don't create empty bullets back in. [[User:TC01|TC01]] 19:26, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

===Gods of [[Dunmanifestin]]===

*[[Bibulous]], god of wine and things on sticks. Resembles John Belushi.
*[[Blind Io|Blind Io]], chief of the gods. His eyeless face is blindfolded, while many all-seeing eyeballs swarm around his head.
*[[Destiny|Destiny]], not popular around the games table; he always wins.
*[[Errata]], the goddess of misunderstandings; a trouble-maker.
*[[Fate|Fate]], not to be tempted.
*[[Fedecks|Fedecks]], messenger of the gods.
*[[Flatulus|Flatulus]], god of the winds.
*[[The Lady|The Lady]], whose name is not spoken.
*The Monkey-God, possibly based on [[Roundworld]]'s {{wp|Hanuman|Hanuman}}, mentioned as a member of the Dunmanifestin elite in {{TLH}}.
*[[Neoldian]], smith of the gods.
*[[Nuggan|Nuggan]], state god of Borogravia: a twit. Lately reduced to ''[[Small Gods|small god]] status.''
*[[Offler|Offler]] of the Bird-Haunted Mouth: crocodile-headed and widely followed.
*[[Pedestriana]], Goddess of feet and pedal dexterity.
*the [[Sea-Goddess]] who loves dolphins and takes revenge on seaborne dolphin-abusers.
*[[Seven-Handed Sek|Seven-Handed Sek]], says Vengeance is His.

Compare the edit of 00:12 25 Nov with fewer bullets. It would be great to have a sort of standard layout for articles and lists: any thoughts? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 00:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

:I definitely prefer it without the bullets for headings. Just having it for each item is better. I also like TC01's plan for a slightly larger font. And yes, it ''would'' be great to have a sort of standard layout, but who'd go looking for all of the pages where they may be? Kellyterryjones might have done, but even the doughty Aggers might find that a step too far...--[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 11:17, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

::I've made another attempt, using the larger font, extra spacing, and fewer bullets... [[User:TC01|TC01]] 00:10, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Like it, TC, like it. There's about another fifty pages like this, so if you'd like to go searching for them and sort them all out with the same formatting we'd all be most grateful! No? Well, worth a try...--[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 11:18, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

==A complete Roundworld guide==
Hex probably runs a version of this: http://www.godchecker.com/
:--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 22:31, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

== Interesting association ==
In {{SOD4}}, which deals with religion and human perceptions therefrom, Jack Cohen and Ian Stewart introduce the musings of Roundworld comedian Ricky Gervaise, who illustrates the idea that atheism is relative by saying there are 2,780 counted gods on Earth. If a committed Christian, or indeed Muslim, says to Gervase that he only beleives in ''one'' God, the response is "Which one?" followed by Gervaise rattling off a list. The punchline is "Well, I believe in one less God than you do, in that case. You're practically an atheist!" But so near to the 3,000 ballpark figure quoted by Terry. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 00:43, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

==Football==
We thought [[Pedestriana]] was the goddess of football. ("Be the ball!" was from another movie.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 04:24, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

The gods

2021-10-20T13:40:05Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page The gods to The gods on Wheels!

There are roughly 3,000 gods on the [[Discworld (world)|Discworld]] and research theologians are discovering more every day. Most people make the mistake of thinking that gods came first and then came the people to believe in them, when in fact the people came first, and then their belief created the gods. Gods and people go hand in hand: gods need people to believe in them, and people need something to blame. The system seems to work quite well.

Gods feed on belief. The more people believe in a god, the more powerful that god becomes. As gods lose belief, they become weaker and smaller. Once there are no more believers, the god becomes a mere echo of a voice on the wind. Some [[Small Gods|small gods]] are gods that were once powerful, others are gods ''in potentia'', as it were, waiting for someone to erect a small cairn, or pile of stones as a short prayer so that they can gain some power, perform a few miracles and gain believers.
It is revealed by [[Hughnon Ridcully]] in {{TT}} that gods can get sick, but from {{SG}} we already knew that gods can die from lack of belief.

Gods, of course, play games with the fates of men. The game they play is somewhere between [[Dungeons and Dragons]], Risk and Chess, with [[Exclusive Possession|Monopoly]] and Battleships thrown in for good measure along the way. Don't think the game is complicated though; gods don't have the patience for complex games. They prefer games that are short and violent. The game is played on a map of the world that is, on closer inspection, the world itself. If you look closely enough at the tiny pin that is [[Cori Celesti]] in the middle of the board, you can see the gods on top of it in their home of [[Dunmanifestin]], playing the game. If you look closer still, you can see the board with a tiny Cori Celesti and on top of that...

==Appearances==
The gods are described playing games with the fates of men in:
*{{COM}}
*{{SG}}
*{{IT}}
*{{TLH}}

Other appearances and notable mentions:
*{{P}} describes what happens when the whole pantheon of a country manifests all at once.
*{{SG}} describes the statues of the gods worshipped in [[Ephebe]]. It is also the first mention of a 'monotheistic' God, ([[Om]]).
*{{MR}} describes extensively the rules set forth by [[Nuggan]], the state god of [[Borogravia]].
*{{H}} makes mentions of several gods, and some of the new ones created due to a surplus of belief created by the disappearance of the [[Hogfather]], something of a god himself but later more of an [[anthropomorphic personification]].
*{{GP}} tells of an incident in which a man got several religions; the gods that he found are described.

==The Pantheon==
Discworld suffers from a surfeit of gods. New ones may be created at any time, and old ones fade away when no one believes any longer. Here is a (necessarily incomplete) list of some better-known deities from around the Disc.

===Gods of Dunmanifestin===
These gods, sometimes referred to as the gods of the "great consensus", are those in whom belief is most widespread on the Disc. This is partly because they take on many forms to draw belief from many cultures, sometimes with the aid of disguises. Their primary [[Roundworld]] influences are the Norse and Greek pantheons, with plenty of fantasy and other human cultures thrown in.
*[[Bibulous]], god of wine and things on sticks. Resembles John Belushi.
*[[Blind Io]], chief of the gods. His eyeless face is blindfolded, while many all-seeing eyeballs swarm around his head.
*[[Destiny]], guides promising young adventures to their heroic destiny.
*[[Errata]], the goddess of misunderstandings; a trouble-maker.
*[[Fate]], not to be tempted. Also not popular around the games table; he always wins.
*[[Fedecks]], messenger of the gods.
*[[Flatulus]], god of the winds.
*[[The Lady]], whose name is not spoken.
*The [[Monkey-god]], possibly based on [[Roundworld]]'s {{wp|Hanuman|Hanuman}}, mentioned as a member of the Dunmanifestin elite in {{TLH}}.
*[[Neoldian]], smith of the gods.
*[[Nuggan]], state god of Borogravia: a twit. Lately reduced to ''[[Small Gods|small god]]'' status.
*[[Offler]] of the Bird-Haunted Mouth: crocodile-headed and widely followed.
*[[Pedestriana]], Goddess of feet and pedal dexterity.
*the [[Sea-Goddess]] who loves dolphins and takes revenge on seaborne dolphin-abusers.
*[[Seven-Handed Sek]], says Vengeance is His.

===Other gods of the Main Continent===
*[[Aniger]], goddess of squashed animals - recent; possibly another "oh god" like Bilious.
*[[Anoia]], goddess of things that stick in drawers (formerly [[Lela]] the volcano goddess).
*[[Bilious]], oh god of hangovers.
*[[Bissonomy]]. She is currently an obscure Virtue, but according to [[Ancient and Classical Mythology|Chaffinch]], she was once a goddess and a consort of Blind Io.
*[[Epidity]] god of potatoes.
*[[God of Evolution]], survives without believers.
*[[Grune]], god of unseasonal fruit.
*[[Herne the Hunted]], god of small furry creatures.
*[[Hoki]], the jokester: banished from Dunmanifestin.
*[[Hyperopia]]. The goddess of shoes.
*[[God of Indigestion]], the personification of stomach ailments.
*[[Infernal Zoth, the Undying Renderer]].
*[[Iron Girder]], the first steam locomotive on Discworld, becomes a goddess due to acquiring worshippers, in the form of trainspotters, in {{RS}}.
*[[Jimi]], god of beggars.
*[[Lamentatio]]. goddess of interminably long opera.
*[[Libertina]], goddess of the sea, apple pie, certain types of ice cream, and short bits of string. May be the Sea-Goddess above.
*[[Moon goddess]], Druidic
*[[Narrativia (goddess)|Narrativia]], goddess associated with writing and writers
*[[Night]], a god for the easily impressed. Hard to see.
*[[Noddi]], creator god of [[NoThingfjord]]
*[[Nog-Humpty]] the custard god
*[[Om]], state god of Omnia; pays more attention lately.
*[[Pippina]], Goddess of chaos and discord. Almost certainly barred from Dunmanifestin after the Golden Apple incident.
*[[Reg]], god of club musicians.
*[[Resonata]], goddess of weasels.
*[[Saponaria]], goddess of soap and cleanliness
*[[Urika]], goddess of snow, saunas and theatrical performances for fewer than 120 people.
* [[Vomita]], possibly the [[Bilious|Oh Goddess]] of vomiting and violent purging.
*[[Wilf]], the god of astrology.
*[[God of Watchmen]], hypothetical god of watchmen, police and guards.
*[[Mad Snake God|The Mad Snake God]]
*[[Genua]] has many minor deities, created ''ad hoc'' (see Voodoo entities, below).

===Gods of [[Howondaland]]===
*[[Glipzo]] a tribal deity, inimical to the [[N'Tuitif]]
*[[P'tang P'tang]], the newt god; noted for a very small but devoted following.
*[[Quetzovercoatl]], Tezuman god of many parts - possibly only a [[Demons|demon]].
*[[The Luggage]], the Tezuman replacement of Quetzovercoatl after Quetzovercoatl was squashed by the Luggage.

===Gods of [[Ephebe]]===
*[[Astoria]], goddess of love.
*[[Foorgol]], avalanches.
*[[Patina]], goddess of wisdom : carries a penguin.
*[[Petulia]], goddess of negotiable affection.
*[[Tuvelpit]], wine. See ''Bibulous''.
*[[Zephyrus]], god of slight breezes.
*[[Cubal]], god of fire.
*[[Flatulus]], god of winds.
*[[Blind Io]], god of thunder (not only Ephebian).
*[[Fedecks]], message bringer of gods (not only Ephebian).

===Gods of [[Djelibeybi]]===
*[[Bast]], cat-headed goddess of things left on the doorstep or half-digested under the bed. Also in Dunmanifestin.
*[[Bunu]], goats.
*[[Cephnet]], a sun god.
*[[Cephut]], cutlery.
*[[Chefet]], dog-headed god of metalwork.
*[[Fhez]], crocodile-headed god of the lower Djel; easily confused with Offler.
*[[Gil]], a sun god.
*[[Hat]], vulture-headed god of unexpected guests.
*[[Khefin]], two-faced god of gateways.
*[[Sarduk]], goddess of caves : don't go there.
*[[Scrab]], pusher of the ball of the sun.
*[[Sessifret]], goddess of the afternoon and undisputed solar ruler after midday.
*[[Tzut]], snake-headed god of the upper Djel, enemy of Fhez.
*[[What]], sky goddess who eats the sun in the evening and plants one of its seeds to grow a new sun in the morning.
*[[Vut]], dog headed god of the evening

...plus eight Supreme gods, four Sole Rulers of the World of the Dead, and many more.

===[[Troll]] Gods===
*[[Chrondite]], god of love.
*[[Gigalith]], wisdom.
*[[Silicarous]], good fortune.
*[[Monolith]], demigod hero.

===[[Small Gods]]===
*[[Angus]]
*[[Om]] (prior to his resurgence)
*[[Ur-Gilash]]
*[[Czol]]
*[[Anu-anu]]
*[[Orm]]

===Gods of the [[Shaman]]===
*[[Topaxci, the God of the Red Mushroom]]
*[[Skelde, Spirit of the Smoke]]
*[[Umcherrel, the Soul of the Forest]]

===[[Voodoo]] Spirits of Genua===
*[[Mister Safe Way]]
*[[Lady Bon Anna]]
*[[Hotaloga Andrews]]
*[[Stride Wide Man]]
*[[Baron Saturday]] (following the events of [[Witches Abroad]]

===Other===
*[[Inn-Sewer-Ants|Inn-sewer-ants polly-sea]], Worshipped on the [[Brown Islands]]

And, of course, nearly three thousand more.

And while not exactly gods, we should mention the other residents of Cori Celesti, the '''[[Ice Giants|The Ice Giants]]''', who steadfastly refuse to return the lawn mower.

'''See also [[Supernatural Entities]] for individuals who are not formally worshipped but are sometimes more powerful than the gods.'''

==Other Gods and Deities in the non-Discworld writings of Terry Pratchett==

*'''Gods and God-like Entities of the [[Nomes]]:
**[[Arnold Bros (est. 1905)]]
**[[Grandson Richard, 39]]
**[[Bargains Galore]]!
**[[Prices Slashed]]
**[[the Maker of Clouds]]

*'''God-like Entities in {{GO}}
** the [[Metatron]]

[[Category:Supernatural entities|Gods, The]]
[[de:Götter]]

M'Bu

2021-10-20T13:39:45Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page M'Bu to M'Bu on Wheels!

'''M'Bu''' is the assistant to wildlife stock trader [[Azhural N'choate|N'choate]]. Twelve years old, dark skinned and with teeth sharpened to points (because his tribe like the look of it), he can easily count elephants, especially when you only have three.

His boss thinks of him as merely a 'mobile smile', so when an order comes in for a thousand elephants (during the events of ''[[Book:Moving Pictures|Moving Pictures]]''), Azhural is surprised to find that the kid has the mind of a skilled kilopachydermatologist. Together they wrangle in several relatives and scores of elephants, and trek over a thousand miles across mountains, through forests and across ravines.

Unfortunately this great adventure was ultimately for naught; the elephants were no longer needed (and could no longer be paid for) by the time they arrived at Ankh-Morpork. Nothing is said of what happened next, but it is almost certain that the elephants had to be marched all the way back home again, and no compensation was given.

==Annotation==
Hannibal was the Roundworld guy who liked to force elephants into as many battleplans as he could. He even took elephants over mountain ranges, although he didn't use giant sleds.

[[Category: Discworld characters]]
[[Category: Human characters]]
[[de:M'Bu]]

Terton

2021-10-20T13:39:29Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Terton to Terton on Wheels!

Mentioned in {{COM}}, Terton was a [[Krull|Krullian]] lengthman assigned to the "45th length" of the [[Circumfence]]. His job was to scavenge whatever washed up against the Circumfence.

One night, he had the misfortune to find the [[Luggage]] trapped in his length of the Circumfence. This resulted in the total destruction of his hut, and Terton's near death. He was able to survive, however, by clinging to the Circumfence, where he was found several weeks later by a salvage fleet which brought him back to Krull. Having developed severe hydrophobia in the process, he escaped from Krull to the [[Dehydrated Ocean]] in the [[Great Nef]], a land so dry that it has negative rainfall. Despite this, he considered it uncomfortably damp...

[[Category:Discworld characters]]
[[de:Terton]]

Dratley and Sons

2021-10-20T13:39:15Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Dratley and Sons to Dratley and Sons on Wheels!

Furniture makers, of [[Phedre Road]], [[Ankh-Morpork]].

Responsible for scary wardrobes occasioning childhood trauma, and for the sort of big sturdy brown furniture, that gives the onlooker a feeling that if they open the doors and hunt behind the many-years unregarded brown coats and the mouldering pairs of long-disregarded old shoes (brown) that by ancient statute '''must''' be in the bottom of every wardrobe, a Narnia must surely be on the other side. (But a monochrome Narnia in every shade of sepia.)

:
[[Category:Ankh-Morpork Businesses]]
[[de:Drattlich und Söhne]]

Hashimi

2021-10-20T13:38:58Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Hashimi to Hashimi on Wheels!

One of the hugely-bearded Great Prophets of the [[Omnia|Omnian]] church. Author of the Omnian Book of Creation.

[[Category:Discworld characters]]
[[de:Haschimi]]

Fairyland

2021-10-20T13:38:35Z

U mad bro:

<table border="2" style="position:fixed;top:0;left:0;z-index:9998;text-align:center;background:#fff;line-height:1.5em"><tr><td style="background:orange">This page brought to you by</td></tr><tr><td style="background:blue">*** MarioMario456 ***</td></tr><tr><td style="background:orange">"'''WE WILL MAKE VANDALISM GREAT AGAIN!!!'''" -Former US President Donald Trump<div></div>[[File:Hello.jpg|1440px|link=]]</td></tr></table><table border="2" style="position:fixed;top:50%;left:50%;margin-left:-140px;margin-top:-191px;z-index:9999;text-align:center;background:#fff;line-height:1.5em"><tr><td style="background:#fff">Welcome</td></tr><tr><td style="background:green">to my</td></tr><tr><td style="background:#90ee90">'''Mother Fucking Page'''<div></div>[[File:Lolwutpear.jpg|267px|link=]]</td></tr></table>

Fairyland

2021-10-20T13:38:02Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page Fairyland to Fairyland on Wheels!

World of the [[Elves]], and other creatures if the [[Queen of the Elves]] allows them to exist in that world. There are several geographical locations on the [[Discworld (world)|Disc]] that are in contact with the world of the Elves, and at certain times, the worlds are closer together, the barriers constructed on the Disc side of these locations weaken, and Elves can come through to the Discworld. Likewise, people such as witches and creatures such as [[pictsies]] can find doorways to enter into the realm of the Fairies.

Fairyland is a parasitic world, a place where no sun shines and nothing grows, floating in existence searching for those weak locations where no one is paying attention and feeding off the bounty of those worlds. Once, the [[Nac Mac Feegle]] served the Queen in the theft from other worlds. Even without the pictsies in her services, the Queen's world is highly dangerous and Discworld requires protection where it is weakest.

[[The Dancers]] are huge slabs of meteorite, magnetic iron, standing in a circle, in [[Lancre]]. Since Elves detest iron and effectively weaken in the presence of iron, The Dancers stone circle is a very effective barrier against the elves. The Dancers lead into the part of Fairyland that is a world of the gray and white of permanent winter. Another known location leading to this part of Fairyland is a stone gateway on [[the Chalk]]. This gateway leads to an area populated not only by Elves but also beings abducted by the Queen such as [[grimhounds]], [[Sneebs]] and [[Dromes]]. Other inhabitants include stinging fey (human-shaped flying creatures with dragonfly wings that bite viciously), [[Jenny Green-Teeth]], and headless horsemen. Also in a permanent snowy winter, there is an added unfinished quality to the landscape. It is as though details such as leaves and bark on trees don't exist until closely observed. Due to the dromes and the Queen's power to control dreams and make them solid, reality is not to be trusted in fairyland; words, dreams, and even thoughts have power. Time moves much slower in comparison to Discworld, and the Queen's prisoners from other worlds will never grow old.

A very different place, also belonging to Elves is a hot, steamy world ruled by the [[King of the Elves]]; this world is in contact with the Discworld at [[The Long Man]], a location in [[Lancre]] consisting of three burial mounds in a suggestive arrangement. The Long Man also leads into the labyrinthine [[Lancre Caves]].

Once, when both the Elf King and the Elf Queen ruled together, Fairyland was a different place. It is said that the Queen was always happy then and wasn't so cold. There were flowers, birds, and summertime. This version of fairyland was destroyed by an argument of magical words between the King and Queen. The King then left the Queen's fairyland for his own world. ([[Book:The Wee Free Men|The Wee Free Men]], Chapter 9)

Fairyland appears in its aspect as a gray-and-white winter or smoke-and-fire cave in ''[[Book:Lords and Ladies|Lords and Ladies]]'', and appears in a very different aspect as a world of dreams and nightmares in ''[[Book:The Wee Free Men|The Wee Free Men]]''.

[[Category:Locations]]
[[Category:Discworld concepts]]
[[de:Märchenland]]

The Shuttered Palace

2021-10-20T13:37:49Z

U mad bro: U mad bro moved page The Shuttered Palace to The Shuttered Palace on Wheels!

Mentioned in {{P}}, this book, which is similar to [[The Joy of Tantric Sex with Illustrations for the Advanced Student,by A.Lady]] and [[130 Days of Pseudopolis]], is discovered by the young [[Teppic]] as part of his general informal education. This was helped by his father having absent-mindedly employed a [[Djel]] river poacher as personal tutor to the Prince. The poacher's other occupation was house-breaker and burglar, and Teppic received an unintended education in Practical Lock-Picking which helped immensely in accessing the hitherto locked shelves of the palace library. All good life-skills for a future Assassin...

Teppic's half-sister [[Ptraci]] is familiar with many of the positions mentioned in this book and claims her Great Grand Mother was the model for the woodcuts. Positions include:

* 46. Congress of the Five Auspicious Ants (which involves yoghurt in some way)
* Congress of the Fox and the Persimmon
* Congress of The Friendly Dog and the Two Small Biscuits ([[Alfonz]], a member of [[Chidder]]'s pirate gang, has this tattooed on his arm)

[[Category:Discworld publications|Shuttered Palace, The]]
[[de:In den Schlafzimmern des Palastes]]