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Dyslexic Alphabet Killer, The

2025-01-16T14:37:27Z

Daibhid C:

A would-be serial killer active in [[Ankh-Morpork]] and the Sto Plains, who only managed to score kills under "A" and "W" before being arrested. Notable for pushing the life and career of [[Albert Spangler]] off the front page of the [[Tanty Bugle]] and, owing to pressure of space, into a mere two small paragraphs on an inside page.

==Annotation==

See note to [[Department of Post-Mortem Communications]] for a very intriguing psychic correspondence. Co-incidence?

The idea of a serial killer who murders people alphabetically is also seen in ''The ABC Murders'' by Agatha Christie, although her killer knew the alphabet and managed to get as far as D.

[[Category:Discworld characters|Dyslexic Alphabet Killer, The]]
[[de:Legasthenischer Alphabetmörder]]

Dyslexic Alphabet Killer, The

2025-01-16T14:37:03Z

Daibhid C:

A would-be serial killer active in [[Ankh-Morpork]] and the Sto Plains, who only managed to score kills under "A" and "W" before being arrested. Notable for pushing the life and career of [[Albert Spangler]] off the front page of the [[Tanty Bugle]] and, owing to pressure of space, into a mere two small paragraphs on an inside page.

==Annotation==

See note to [[Department of Post-Mortem Communications]] for a very intriguing psychic correspondence. Co-incidence?

The idea of a serial killer who uses the alphabet is also seen in ''The ABC Murders'' by Agatha Christie, although her killer knew the alphabet and managed to get as far as D.

[[Category:Discworld characters|Dyslexic Alphabet Killer, The]]
[[de:Legasthenischer Alphabetmörder]]

Mankin

2024-10-12T16:20:37Z

Daibhid C:

{{Character Data
|title= Mankin
|photo=Blank.jpg|
|name= Mankin
|age=
|race= half-[[Elf]]
|occupation= Owner and bantender of the [[Octarine Parrot]]
|appearance=
|residence= [[Ankh-Morpork]]
|death=
|parents=
|relatives=
|children=
|marital status=
|books=''[[Discworld Noir]]''
|cameos=
}}
Mankin is the sinister half-[[Elves|elven]] landlord at the [[Octarine Parrot]], a seedy [[Pubs|pub]] situated at 9, [[Whalebone Lane]], [[Ankh-Morpork]].

His name is probably a pun on the Elven lord [[Lankin|Long Lankin]], only shifted a seedier letter down the alphabet. It also implies "manky", and perhaps "man-kin" referencing his human side.

He is spectacularly unhelpful to private eye [[Inspector Lewton]] in [[Discworld Noir]]. He speaks with a Welsh accent, indicating he may have come from [[Llamedos]].

It is pointed out by Lewton that Mankin is at a serious disadvantage by being half-elf; everyone can see he has elven blood in him, (and races with long memories such as trolls and dwarves have a deep hatred for elves) but he has none of the advantages of a true elf, and cannot weave any glamour to protect himself or control other people.

[[Category:Discworld Noir|Mankin]]
[[Category:Discworld characters|Mankin]]

Rouster and Sideways

2024-10-09T21:56:06Z

Daibhid C:

A publishing company in [[Ankh-Morpork]] responsible for the acclaimed work of literature, [[Where's My Cow?|Where's My Cow?]], of which [[Tuppence Swivel]], literary critic of the [[Ankh-Morpork Times]], memorably said: "Are we not all of us, in some small way, searching for our cow?". They were also the publishers of [[Mr Bunnsy Has An Adventure]].

Their offices are on [[Gleam Street]].

[[Category:Ankh-Morpork Businesses]]

Marietta Cosmopilite

2023-06-09T19:37:09Z

Daibhid C:

{{Character Data
|title= Mrs. Marietta Cosmopilite
|photo= Mrs cosmopolite1.JPG|Mrs Cosmopilite, as drawn by [[User:Knmatt|Matt Smith]]
|name= Marietta Cosmopilite
|age=
|race= [[Humans|Human]]

|occupation= Dress-maker and seamstress (in the [[Sandra Battye]] sense)

|appearance=

|residence= 3 [[Quirm Street]], [[Ankh-Morpork]]. She apparently also runs a dress-shop/haberdashery located not far away from Blert Wheedown's guitar workshop ({{SM}}).

|death=
|parents=
|relatives=
|children=
|marital status= presumably there once was a Mr. Cosmopilite

|books= {{MP}}
|cameos= {{WA}}, {{TOT}}
}}
'''Mrs. Marietta Cosmopilite''' is a dress-maker living at 3 [[Quirm Street]], Ankh-Morpork. She also runs a dress shop and haberdashery not far away from [[Blert Wheedown]]'s guitar workshop: during the [[Music With Rocks In]] craze, Wheedown sent his apprentice [[Gibbsson]] round to her shop to negotiate for sequins, Ankhstones and suitably flashy material for guitar straps. During the [[Holy Wood]] moving pictures fever, Mrs. Cosmopilite worked as the wardrobe mistress for the actors. Mrs. Cosmopilite also makes dresses for the new dwarf females. Other than dress-making, Mrs. Cosmopilite rents out some rooms in her house (Very Reasonable).

Since seekers of wisdom always want to seek it somewhere far away, some young monks come down from the [[Ramtops]] and the [[Hub]] and try to learn ''[[The Way of Mrs. Cosmopilite]]''. This collection of trite, but sometimes pithy homilies was compiled by [[Lu-Tze]], a.k.a. the Sweeper, of the [[History Monks]]; he carries it with him in a small notebook. It has never been published, otherwise, but rumor has spread of the teacher of the great and wise Lu-Tze. The seekers of enlightenment on Quirm Street never know quite what they're looking for, and Mrs. Cosmopilite has no idea why they're bothering her.

She complains that she is bothered at nights by [[Dwarfs|dwarf]] voyeurs peeping in through the curtains while she undresses. Dwarfs have a different aesthetic as to what constitutes attractiveness (as evidenced by [[Giamo Casanunda|Casanunda]]'s passion for [[Nanny Ogg]]), and it is hinted that, however unlikely this behaviour is for dwarfs, this is the only thing she has got right out of a catalogue of interesting delusional beliefs. Although it is possible that she is on one of [[Nobby Nobbs]]' patrol beats, and has made a common error re: Nobby's species...

Extremely accomplished with broom, dustpan and feather duster, by Lu-Tze's expert testimony.

==Annotation==

If the young Lu-Tze went to her to learn ''[[The Way of Mrs. Cosmopilite]]'' and is over 800 years old at the time of the events described in {{TOT}}, how can she still be alive to be gallivanting in the time of {{MP}}? Is it that Lu-Tze persuaded [[Qu]] to send him forwards in time and then bring him back once he'd learnt? (Linear time is not something the History Monks seem to worry about.) {{LTYOE}} dates his time with her to "thirty years ago", at least as time is measured outside Oi-Doing.

It is also possible that part of her interesting mental state may be due to the mercury traditionally employed in the haberdashery and millinery trades.

[[category:Discworld characters|Cosmopilite,Marietta]]
[[Category:Human characters|Cosmopilite,Marietta]]
[[de:Marietta Kosmopilit]]

Talk:Discworld Timeline 2.0

2023-06-09T19:31:58Z

Daibhid C:

== Discworld Timeline 2.0 ==

=== 1. Prologue ===

So I think it's time to once and for all revisit the [[Discworld Timeline]] and try to fix it as it has a lot of issues with it as of now, contradicting many things stated in the novels as well as what Terry Pratchett himself has said.

Most of it was made a long time ago before the later novels came out which gives us more set dates which contradict the old timeline.

=== 2. Fixed points in time ===

There are a few fixed points in time and ways to help us figure out the date of the novels.

* '''The Battle of Ankh-Morpork is 1688'''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city."''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688."''

* '''Feet of Clay takes place in 1987 1 year before the 300th anniversary of The battle of ankh-morpork'''

Feet of Clay: ''“Thing is, it’s the tricentre—tricera—this three-hundred-year celebration thing next year, Mr. Vimes…”... ...“Well…we’re going to recreate the Battle of Ankh-Morpork for the celebrations... ...“Er…I’m going to be King Lorenzo, sir. Er…you know…the last king, the one your…er…”... ...“And who drew the straw to play Stoneface Vimes?”''

* '''Havelock Vetinari Graduates from the Guild of Assassins in 1968'''

The Truth: ''"Lord Vetinari “—who graduated with full honors from the Guild of Assassins in 1968,"''

* '''Havelock Vetinari is the patrician in all books'''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The holder of the office throughout the Discworld Chronicles (apart from some events in night watch) is Havelock, Lord vetinari"''

lspace.org/books/apf/the-colour-of-magic - Terry Pratchett: ''"I'm pretty certain that the same Patrician was in all the books. [...] He's clearly lost weight and got more austere. It must be the pressure... ..."I've always thought the Patrician is a party animal. Can you imagine waking up next day and remembering all those witty things you said and did, and then realising that he was listening?"''

* '''Havelock Vetinari Therefore Celebrates his 10 year anniversary as a patrician in Mort'''

Mort: ''"On this particular night they were scented with saltpeter, too, because it was the tenth anniversary of the accession of the Patrician"''

* '''Mustrum Ridcully is 72 in Soul Music and 67 in Moving Pictures'''

Moving Pictures: ''"the desk of Mustrum Ridcully, the new Archchancellor of Unseen University... ...And yet, at the time, it had seemed a really good idea to elect an Archchancellor who hadn’t set foot in the University in forty years. There had been so much in-fighting between the various orders of wizardry in recent years that, just for once, the senior wizards had agreed that what the University needed was a period of stability, so that they could get on with their scheming and intriguing in peace and quiet for a few months. A search of the records turned up Ridcully the Brown who, after becoming a Seventh Level mage at the incredibly young age of twenty-seven, had quit the University in order to look after his family’s estates deep in the country."''

Soul Music: ''The Dean: He sighed. He was seventytwo... ...Dean: Your trouble, Archchancellor, is that you don’t understand people of our age!” “What…you mean seven months older than me?” said Ridcully.''

* '''The Glorious Revolution is 25 years before Men at Arms'''

Men at Arms: ''"Vimes said, I’m retiring from the Watch tomorrow. Twenty-five years on the streets"''

* '''The bank crash of 88, 93 and 98 happened before Making Money'''

Making Money: ''"We have been badly buffeted in recent years. The crash of 88, the crash of 93, the crash of 98…"''

=== 3. Old Timeline ===

The old timeline is situated at [[Discworld Timeline]] and is based of this even older timeline on lspace.org https://www.lspace.org/books/timeline/dw-timeline-intro.html

So how does the old timeline fit in with the Fixed points in time? well it's got a couple of issues.

* It breaks the rule that Making Money has to be some time after the crash of 98.
* It breaks the rule that the Glorious Revolution is 25 years before Men at Arms.
* It breaks the rule that Ridcully is 67 in Moving pictures, as well as breaks the 5 year timegap between Moving Pictures and Soul Music.
* It breaks the rule that the Patrician is celebrating his 10 year anniversary in Mort as it assumes that the patrician in Mort is Snapcase.

As you can see there are quite a lot of issues with the current old timeline. And my hope is to try and fix those issues with a timeline that can fit as many of the Fixed points in time as possible.

There are also several other issues with the timeline, for instance Carpe Jugulum is set in the Century of the Anchovy despite stating that it's in the Century of the Fruitbat in the novel.

Carpe Jugulum: ''"Are we not in a unique position as we reach the end of the Century of the Fruitbat?"''

And the fact that several novels in the timeline were placed based upon complete guesses like x novel probably takes place 2 years after y novel because that seems like a good idea.

=== 4. Discworld Timeline 2.0 - A new beginning. ===

First we want to create a set novel we can base the others around, for this the best is the novel that we know exactly when it takes place. Feet of Clay.

==== 4.1 Early Watch novels ====

'''Feet of Clay Is 1 year before the 300th anniversary of the battle of ankh-morpork. The Discworld Companion companion details this very well.'''

Feet of Clay: ''“Thing is, it’s the tricentre—tricera—this three-hundred-year celebration thing next year, Mr. Vimes…”... ...“Well…we’re going to recreate the Battle of Ankh-Morpork for the celebrations... ...“Er…I’m going to be King Lorenzo, sir. Er…you know…the last king, the one your…er…”... ...“And who drew the straw to play Stoneface Vimes?”''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city."''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688."''

'''So {{FOC}} is 1987 and we can easily plot out Guards! Guards! in 1985 and Men at Arms in 1986'''

{{FOC}}: ''"Carrot paused. It said a lot about Captain Carrot that, even after almost two years in Ankh-Morpork"''

{{FOC}}: ''"But he hasn’t touched a drop all year!” said Carrot, giving the recumbent Vimes a shake. “He goes to meetings about it and everything!"''

'''We can now place the Glorious revolution 25 years before Men at Arms which would be 1961'''

{{MAA}}: ''"Vimes said, I’m retiring from the Watch tomorrow. Twenty-five years on the streets"''

'''{{SM}} takes place some time between Men at Arms and Feet of Clay, Detritus takes place in the watch in Men at Arms, is a Constable in Soul Music, and Sergeant in Feet of Clay. This means that Soul Music has to take place ether 1986 or 1987'''

'''{{M}} has to take place some time 16 or more years before Soul Music as Susan is 16 years old in Soul Music. It also has to take place some time after The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic as the librarian is ape-shaped'''

{{M}}: ''“Oook.”''

{{SM}}: ''"“How old are you?” “Sixteen.”''

'''Moving Pictures takes place 5 years before Soul Music as Ridcully is 67 in Moving Pictures and 72 in Soul Music'''

Moving Pictures: ''"the desk of Mustrum Ridcully, the new Archchancellor of Unseen University... ...And yet, at the time, it had seemed a really good idea to elect an Archchancellor who hadn’t set foot in the University in forty years. There had been so much in-fighting between the various orders of wizardry in recent years that, just for once, the senior wizards had agreed that what the University needed was a period of stability, so that they could get on with their scheming and intriguing in peace and quiet for a few months. A search of the records turned up Ridcully the Brown who, after becoming a Seventh Level mage at the incredibly young age of twenty-seven, had quit the University in order to look after his family’s estates deep in the country."''

Soul Music: The Dean: ''He sighed. He was seventytwo... ...Dean: Your trouble, Archchancellor, is that you don’t understand people of our age!” “What…you mean seven months older than me?” said Ridcully.''

'''Reaper Man takes place at the same time as Moving Pictures'''

Moving Pictures: ''"Windle Poons, who was one hundred and thirty years old"''

Reaper Man: ''"He was one hundred and thirty" (on windle poons age)''

'''Small Gods takes place in the same year as Reaper Man'''

Reaper Man: ''"Windle poons-born in the year of the Significant Triangle... ... died in the year of the Notional Serpent in the Century of the Fruitbat"''

Small Gods: ''"It was the Year of the Notional Serpent, or two hundred years after the Declaration of the Prophet Abbys."''

'''Small Gods also takes place 100 years before Reaper Man at the same time, in the year of the notional serpent in the Century of the Three Lice'''

Thief of Time: ''"The history of the country of Ephebe was puzzling, for example. Either its famous philosophers lived for a very long time, or inherited their names, or extra bits had been stitched into history there. The history of Omnia was a mess. Two centuries had been folded into one, by the look of it, and it was only because of the mind-set of the Omnians, whose religion mixed the past and future with the present in any case, that it could possibly have passed unnoticed."''

Thief of Time: ''THE BOOK OF TOBRUN HAS NOT BEEN CONSIDERED OFFICIAL CHURCH DOGMA FOR A HUNDRED YEARS. THE PROPHET BRUTHA REVEALED THAT THE WHOLE CHAPTER WAS A METAPHOR FOR A POWER STRUGGLE WITHIN THE EARLY CHURCH. IT IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE REVISED VERSION OF THE BOOK OF OM, AS DETERMINED BY THE CONVOCATION OF EE.''

'''Now comes the Patrician. Vetinari needs to have been the Patrician for 10 years before Mort, and we know that Snapcase is the Patrician at the end of Night Watch. This means that we need to have 10 years between Mort and The Glorious Revolution. This would mean that Mort has to be placed in 1971, and Soul Music 16 years later in 1987. This also means that The color of magic and The Light Fantastic has to be placed sometime between 1961 and 1971.'''

'''But Vetinari graduated from the assassins guild in 1968 how does that fit with him becoming patrician in 1961? Well to solve this we have to assume that Snapcase had a very short reign followed by Vetinari taking over, then 7 years later Vetinari gets his post-grad diploma while Patrician, something the Guild of Assassins is known to do.'''

Men at Arms: ''"That afternoon he (Edward) sold what remained of the d’Eath estates, and enrolled again at the Guild school. For the post-graduate course"''

'''The current timeline looks like this'''

Century of the Three Lice

* 1882 - Small Gods

Century of the Fruitbat

* 1961 - The Glorious Revolution (Night Watch)
* 1961 ~~ 1971 - The Color of Magic, Light Fantastic
* 1971 - Mort
* 1982 - Moving Pictures, Reaper Man, Small Gods
* 1985 - Guards! Guards!, Theatre of Cruelty
* 1986 - Men at Arms
* 1987 - Feet of Clay, Soul Music

==== 4.2 Young Sam Vimes is the Key ====

'''Now Young Sam Vimes is key to solving most of the timeline, we get to know his age in several novels which helps us to accurately place the others.'''

'''The Truth Takes place 1~37 months before Night Watch. it's after the first Clacks company was founded 25~37 months before Night Watch (see 4.3 Adding Moist) and The Ankh-Morpork Times appears in Night Watch'''

The Truth: ''"Dibbler sighed. “I missed out on the semaphore. Just didn’t see it coming. Next thing you know, everyone’s got a clacks company. Big money... ...“And there’s this clacks from Lancre that came in when you’d gone home,” said the dwarf. “That’ll cost us another fifty pence for the messenger.''

'''Jingo Takes place "a few months" before The Fifth Elephant as Buggy Swires Joined the watch "a few months" before The Fifth Elephant and is in the watch in Jingo'''

''Jingo: *“That’s Probationary Constable Buggy Swires, sir. He likes to get a good view.”*

The Fifth Elephant: ''"Constable Swires had been on the force only for a few months, but news had gone around and already he inspired respect, or at least the bladder-trembling terror that can pass for respect on these occasions"''

'''The Fifth Elephant Takes place 1~9 months before Night Watch as Sybil Ramkin is pregnant with Young Sam Vimes'''

'''Young Sam Vimes is born in Night Watch'''

Night Watch: ''"Sybil was sitting up. He saw, through the mist of exhaustion, that she was holding something wrapped in a shawl. “He’s called Sam, Sam,” she said. “And no argument.”"''

'''Thief of Time Takes place at the same time/before Night Watch as the same storm occurs in both.'''

Night Watch: ''"The lightning struck. Windows blew out and iron gutters melted. Roofs lifted into the air and settled again. Buildings shook. But this storm had been blowing in from far across the plains, pushing the natural background magic ahead of it. It dumped it now, all in one go. They said afterward that the bolt of lightning hit a clockmaker’s shop in the Street of Cunning Artificers, stopping all the clocks at that instant."''

'''Where's My Cow? Takes place 13 months after Night Watch as Young Sam Vimes is 1 year old and the event is mentioned in Thud! which is 14 months after Night Watch'''

Where's My Cow?: ''"to read to Young Sam, who was one year old."''

Thud!: ''"after a trying day, he’d tried the Vimes street version"''

'''Thud! Takes place 14 months after Night Watch and Interesting Times as Young Sam Vimes is 14 Months old'''

Thud!: ''"fourteen-month-old baby"'''

'''Snuff Takes place 6 years after Night Watch and Interesting Times as Young Sam Vimes is 6 years old'''

Snuff: ''"an absolute hoot for a boy just turned six... ...the whole process being a matter of huge entertainment to a boy of six"''

'''Raising Steam Takes place 8 years after The Fifth Elephant which would be about 7~8 years after Night Watch'''

Raising Steam: ''"The King coughed before saying to Vimes, “I remember Sergeant Littlebottom when we met by the Scone of Stone eight years ago. Oh, yes, I remember her.”''

==== 4.3 Adding Moist Von Lipwig ====

'''Going Postal Takes place 3 almost 4 years from the invention of the first clacks company'''

Going Postal: ''"He hadn’t seen a clacks until three years ago, when the first company was founded... ...Sane Alex and Mad Al were old men in the clacks business; they’d been in it for almost four years."''

The Fifth Elephant: ''"The new guild must be coining money. Even from here he could see the scaffolding, as workers feverishly attached still more gantries and paddles to the main tower." "It had all happened so fast. Who’d have believed it?" "And it had caught on as fast as every other craze did in the big city."''

'''Going Postal also have to take place some time before Thud! as Moist von Lipwigs stamp invention is mentioned.'''

Thud!: ''Remember the cabbage-scented stamp last month?... ...Oh yes, two stamps. They were very nearly identical. They both showed Koom Valley, a rocky area ringed by mountains. They both showed the battle. But in one, little figures of trolls were pursuing dwarfs from right to left, and in the other, dwarfs were chasing trolls from left to right''

'''So we can't place going postal later than 14 months after Night Watch which means that the first clacks company would have to have been created sometime 39~51 months before Thud! or 25~37 months before Night Watch, (Remember that i'm using Discworld years which are 13 months each.)'''

'''Going Postal is also the first novel to mention being in the Century of The Anchovy, The Fifth Elephant and The Truth are detailed as being in the Century of the Fruitbat.'''

Going Postal: ''"not at all what we need in the Century of the Anchovy... ...there’s the Times and the Pseudopolis Herald"''

The Fifth Elephant: ''"you’d hardly think you were in the Century of the Fruitbat."''

The Truth: ''“Yes, Dr. Dinwiddie. Er…the Century of the Fruitbat is nearly over, sir... ...the Century of the Fruitbat,” said the Bursar. “We…that’s the one we’re just about to leave, sir.”''

==== 4.4 Creating a timeline with 4.2 and 4.3 ====

'''Since Making Money is situated at earliest in 1998 this means that Going Postal cannot be earlier than 1997. And since Going Postal has to be sometime before Thud! we know that Thud! can't be earlier than 1997 either.'''

'''We also know that The Glorious Revolution cannot take place earlier than 1958 as that is 39 years before Thud! at earliest possible date. and they would probably say more'n 40 or 40 years ago if that was the case. We also know that Thud! cannot take place later than 2000 as that would be 39 years after The Glorious Revolution in 1961.'''

Thud!: ''Barricades, sir, Colon prompted. “More’n thirty years ago?” Vimes gave a curt nod. Oh yes, he remembered the Glorious Revolution''

'''For Going Postal to then take place in The Century of The Anchovy but before Thud! we can place it at the year of 2000 since that is the latest date at which we can place Thud!'''

'''This means our current timeline looks like this'''

Century of the Three Lice

* 1882 - Small Gods

Century of the Fruitbat

* 1961 - The Glorious Revolution (Night Watch)
* 1961 ~~ 1971 - The Color of Magic, Light Fantastic
* 1971 - Mort
* 1982 - Moving Pictures, Reaper Man, Small Gods
* 1985 - Guards! Guards!, Theatre of Cruelty
* 1986 - Men at Arms
* 1987 - Feet of Clay, Soul Music
* 1997/8/9 - Jingo, The Truth
* 1998/9 - The Fifth Elephant
* 1999 - Thief of Time, Night Watch

Century of the Anchovy

* 2000 - Going Postal, Where's My Cow?, Thud!
* 2001 - Making Money
* 2005 - Snuff
* 2006/7 - Raising Steam

==== 4.5 Tiffany Aching ====

'''Since we now have a date for Raising Steam we can somewhat accurately place the Tiffany Aching Novels. The Shepherd's Crown details that the railway is in it's infancy, this places The Shepherd's Crown sometime close after or during Raising Steam'''

The Shepherd's Crown: ''"The railway was still in its infancy – and already there were these arches"... ...‘Last train into Twoshirts is that... ...she thought: Train? It’s big. It’s iron, and we don’t know about it. And what we don’t know about it could get us killed... ...A belch of smoke from a train steaming over the arches almost enveloped both the dwarf and Geoffrey... ...This fell into a very handy pause as an almighty roar announced another train shooting overhead, smoke and smut billowing in the air"''

'''With this in mind we can place The Shepherd's Crown in 2006/7/8 I Shall Wear Midnight is one to two years before The Shepherd's Crown so it takes place some time 2004/5/6/7'''

The Shepherd's Crown: ''"He recognized her immediately – he had had a bad moment when she’d called in a year or two back and let slip she knew the Feegles."'' (Dave the broomstick repair man on the event in ISWM when Tiffany was 15)

'''Wintersmith is 3 years before I Shall Wear Midnight so it takes place sometime 2001/2/3/4'''

I Shall Wear Midnight: ''You’re not sixteen yet and I see you running around nursing people and bandaging people and who knows what chores... ...some seven years ago you took an iron skillet and went into some sort of fairyland"''

Wintersmith: ''Tiffany gave up and sighed. 'I’m almost thirteen,' she said. 'I can look after myself.'" and "It was her birthday....Thirteen years old.''

'''This also fits in with Wintersmith having to take place sometime after The Truth as it mentions the newspaper. and probably sometime after Going Postal as it mentions Groat as Assistant Postmaster'''

Wintersmith: ''"This was reported in the newspapers, and shortly afterward a widow wrote to him saying how much she admired a man who really understood about hygiene. They later were seen walking together, so it’s an ill wind, as they say…"''

Wintersmith: ''"Assistant Postmaster Groat did not believe in doctors. They made you ill, he thought. So he put sulfur in his socks every morning and he was proud to say that he had never had a day’s illness in his life. This may have been because not many people cared to come very close to him, because of the smell. Something did, though. A gale roared into his post office when he was opening the door one morning and blew his socks clean off. And no one heard the Wintersmith say: “Sulfur enough to make a man!”''

'''A Hat Full of Sky is 1 year before Wintersmith so it takes place sometime 2000/1/2/3'''

A Hat Full of Sky: ''"Anyway, she was eleven now, and had a feeling that after a certain age you shouldn’t slide down holes in the ground to talk to little men."''

'''The Wee Free Men is 2 years before A Hat Full of Sky so it takes place sometime 1998/9/2000/1'''

The Wee Free Men: ''"She was nine years old and felt that Tiffany was going to be a hard name to live up to."''

==== 4.6 The Rest ====

'''The rest of the novels are very hard to place and have been placed on the old timeline by pure guesses. But here's what we know.'''

'''Equal Rites Takes place sometime after The Light Fantastic and before Moving Pictures'''

* Equal Rites: ''“Ook?” said the Head Librarian''
* Eskarina Smith is 7 and 8 in Equal Rites by the time of I Shall Wear Midnight it's hinted that she's old but look young, she can however time travel.
* Equal Rites: ''"bow to Archchancellor Cutangle"''

'''Wyrd Sisters Takes place sometime 15 years before Witches Abroad as the Lancre Timeslip moves the witches forward 15 years in time.'''

* One theory is that this is sometime 5 years before Jingo as Leonard of Quirm is mentioned in Wyrd Sisters but goes missing 5 years before Jingo

Wyrd Sisters: ''“Who designed it?” “A daft old chap in the Street of Cunning Artificers,” said Vitoller. “Leonard of Quirm. He’s a painter really. He just does this sort of thing for a hobby. I happened to hear that he’s been working on this for months. I just snapped it up quick when he couldn’t get it to fly.”''

Jingo: ''“I know who he is!” Fred hissed. “That’s Leonard of Quirm, that is! He went missing five years ago!”''

'''Witches Abroad Takes place sometime 15 years after the early events in Wyrd Sisters. It is said that Nanny has known Granny Weatherwax for 70 years by this point.'''

Witches Abroad: ''"Nanny, who had known Esme Weatherwax for seventy years"''

'''Lords and Ladies Takes place 3 months before Maskerade as Verence and Magrat gets married in it and in Maskerade it's stated that it's been 3 months since the wedding.'''

Maskerade: ''"And Magrat had been married for three months"''

'''Carpe Jugulum Takes place sometime during the Century of the Fruitbat'''

* Carpe Jugulum: ''"Are we not in a unique position as we reach the end of the Century of the Fruitbat?"''
* Esme is just 2 weeks old having been born sometime between Maskerade and Carpe Jugulum: ''“Little Esme’s only two weeks old,”''
* The novel ends with: ''"The year was past the edge, heading away from the dark…Of course, dark would come again, but that was in the nature of the world. Many things were beginning"''

'''Sourcery Takes place sometime before Moving Pictures and less than 16 years before The Truth and Takes place about 16 years after Rincewind started trying to become a wizard'''

Sourcery: ''"he did have a small and exceedingly elderly wire-haired terrier called Wuffles"''

The Truth: ''“How old would he be now?” “Sixteen,”''

Sourcery: ''"Tonight would be the Eve of Small Gods, and a new Archchancellor would be elected... ...this year it was a pretty good bet that the gods would see their way clear to selecting old Virrid Wayzygoose"''

Sourcery: ''"Examine Rincewind, as he peers around the sullen shelves. There are eight levels of wizardry on the Disc; after sixteen years Rincewind has failed to achieve even level one. In fact it is the considered opinion of some of his tutors that he is incapable even of achieving level zero, which most normal people are born at;"''

'''Eric Takes place sometime before Moving Pictures'''

Eric: ''"Finally the new Archchancellor, Ezrolith Churn"''

'''Interesting Times Takes place sometime after Moving Pictures and years ago since Sourcery'''

Interesting Times: ''"Mustrum Ridcully, as head of the college of wizard"''

Interesting Times: ''"Rincewind is a bloody nuisance!.. ..Anyway, he hasn’t been seen here since that…unpleasantness with the Sourcerer, years ago."''

'''One popular theory is linking Cohens age to Interesting Times and The Light Fantastic with this we might be able to place Interesting Times however he's rather uncertain of his age in Interesting Times'''

The Light Fantastic: '''“You don’t live to be eighty-seven in his job if you go around dying all the time'''

Interesting Times: ''“Oh, I dunno. Ninety? Could be ninety. Maybe ninety-five?”... ...“When you’ve survived for ninety years”''

'''It's also very vaguely hinted that it might be 5 years since he saw rincewind in The Light Fantastic but the narrator dialogue probably doesn't mean exactly 5 years. it's just a figure of speech'''

Interesting Times: ''As far as Cohen was concerned, people appeared, people disappeared. After a five-year gap he’d just say, “Oh, it’s you.” He never added, “And how are you?.. ..To Rincewind’s relief a spare horse didn’t have to be eaten because a leopardly sort of creature dropped off a tree branch and tried to disembowel Cohen.''

'''So with this to play with it could be that Interesting Times is sometime 3, 4, 5 ,6 ,7 ,8 years after The Light Fantastic this is often explained in theories as Cohen having been stuck in the Lancre timeslip for 15 years to fit with it also taking place after Moving Pictures and Cohen therefore is missing adding on 15 years, which would mean that Interesting Times takes place sometime 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 years after The Light Fantastic, the old timeline used the lancre timesplit theory to fit this in.'''

'''One could use the Lancre timeslip to make this fit with what i've written about the timeline before. or one could simply postulate that Cohen was just 3 years off and is actually 98 as this would fit with Interesting Times taking place right after Moving Pictures 11 years after The Light Fantastic without having to include the Lancre timeslip. as we hear Cohen say himself he's not really sure about his age. so in all, we have no conclusive proof of Interesting Times taking place anywhere other than after Moving Pictures'''

'''The Last Continent Takes place "several / a couple of months" after Interesting Times and "years ago" since sometime after Sourcery'''

Interesting Times: ''"Rincewind was sent to some other place... ...“At least you can show us where you think our man is,”... ...“‘XXXX,’” Ponder read"''

The Last Continent: ''"This was Rincewind after several months: his wizardly robe was quite short now... ... “I only got here a couple of months ago."''

Interesting Times: ''"I don't know anything about that [unpleasantness with the Sourcerer]. I wasn't Dean at the time."''

The Last Continent: ''“This is the memo saying I’ve been appointed as Dean!” he said. “That was years ago!”''

'''The Last Continent also takes place sometime 3-12 years since Moving Pictures as Ridcully is appointed Archchancellor at the age of 67 in Moving Pictures and is still in his seventies.'''

The Last Continent: ''"Ridcully was in his seventies and spry even for wizards"''

'''Unseen Academicals Takes place in the Year of the Pensive Hare sometime after The Truth and The Fifth Elephant'''

Unseen Academicals: ''"This is the year of the Pensive Hare.. ..the Times came along to take pictures... ...He had in fact got it from a leader in the Times"''

Unseen Academicals: ''"Constable Haddock tells me the Igor’s on duty.. ..Constable Haddock.. ..Sergeant Angua.. ..Lance-Constable Bluejohn.."''

'''Monstrous Regiment takes place more than thirty years from the Glorious Revolution and sometime after The Truth and the invention of Clacks.'''

Monstrous Regiment: ''“Have you met Constable Shoe, Clarence?” said Vimes cheerfully. “One of my staff. Been dead for more than thirty years"''

Monstrous Regiment: ''"Because your men tore down the Grand Trunk, you see. The clacks towers... ...“I have seen the clacks towers on the far bank of the Kneck,” said Blouse, his eyes lighting up. “Very clever idea, using big shuttered boxes rather than the old-fashioned semaphore arms... ...William de Worde Editor, Ankh-Morpork Times"''

'''Hogfather There really is no way to place this one what i know of, all we know is that Teppic has the same teacher in Pyramids as Teatime in Hogfather and we know it's sometime after Men at Arms as Constable Visit is mentioned.'''

Hogfather: ''"I am in fact Corporal Nobbs of the Watch. And this is Constable Visit, sir.”''

Hogfather - Teatime: ''"We have to read it, you know, in class. Hah, old Mericet calls it the Guide to the Turf. No one laughs except him, of course"''

Pyramids: ''"Teppic had Mericet for Strategy and Poison Theory every Thursday"''

'''The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents Is really hard to place. however we have some clues. Maurice is 4 years old in The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents:''' ''"thought Maurice. I'm four years old already!"''

'''Reaper Man Mentions Maurice little scam has taken place in several cities already'''

Reaper Man: ''“It’s just that…you remember the trouble with the rats last year? That man who said he had a pipe that played music only rats could hear?” “Yes, but that wasn’t really true, it was all a fraud, it was just the Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents—”... ...“Of course it bloody worked,” said the Dean. “It worked in Quirm and Sto Lat as well. He’d have got away with it in Pseudopolis as well if someone hadn’t recognized him. Mr. so-called Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents!”''

'''One thing that might help us link the book is Three-quarters of a teddy bear It is hinted that Tiffany Aching might be the girl Maurice took part of a tea party with as a kitten.'''

The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents: ''"Once, when he was no more than a kitten, he'd been taken home by a small girl who'd dressed him up in doll's clothes and sat him at a small table with a couple of dolls and three-quarters of a teddy bear."''

The Wee Free Men: ''Last time Tiffany had tried to arrange a party, the guests had been a rag doll with no head, two wooden soldiers, and three quarters of a small teddy bear''

'''This would place The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents Sometime 3~4 years after Tiffany's birth to Sometime 3~4 years after The Wee Free Men'''

'''Pyramids is also really hard to place. Teatime in Hogfather has the same teacher as Teppic in Pyramids Dr Cruces appear in both Pyramids and Men at Arms and The Philosophers appear in both Pyramids and Small Gods'''

Hogfather - Teatime: ''"We have to read it, you know, in class. Hah, old Mericet calls it the Guide to the Turf. No one laughs except him, of course"''

Pyramids: ''"Teppic had Mericet for Strategy and Poison Theory every Thursday"''

=== 5. Conclusion ===

The way I've puzzled together this timeline breaks none of the rules set forth at the start while the old timeline breaks several of them. However there can definitely be ways to break this timeline as well if we find some evidence. I see this new timeline as the more accurate timeline seeing as the old one is based mostly on wild guesses, the old one also doesn't include the Tiffany Novels and has issues with centuries.

My hope is that you guys can help me Evolve this list and further more accurately place these novels in the timeline, Maybe there are more clues in what weather or season we are experiencing in each novel for instance.

-[[User:WiktorReads|WiktorReads]] 2021-06-20

=== 6. Historical Moments ===

==== 6.1 Something to think about ====

* '''1256 was counted Twice'''

Turtle Recall: ''the city eventually took to using the University’s Ankh-Morpork Years, which at least were reliable and happened one after the other, apart from 1256, which for some reason happened twice...''

* '''AM has been redefined and the calls to AM dates in the companions is following the UC definition of AM which is not the original.'''

Turtle Recall: ''It was founded '''in what was then known as AM 1282''' by Alberto Malich, during the closing days of the Ankh-Morpork Empire... ...The wizards began numbering their years from that date''

* '''The Discworld is at least several hundred million years old.'''

Turtle Recall: ''The continents certainly have moved around (possibly on wheels of some kind, if the molten rock theory is discounted). Discworld time is always a tricky thing to measure, but by inference it must have been several hundred million years ago that the supercontinent of Pangola was struck by a giant meteorite, which may have killed off those lifeforms not equipped by a neglectful Nature to survive impact with flaming rock travelling at several thousand miles a second, and also instigated the break-up which led eventually to the Discworld of today.''

==== 6.2 Laws ====

* 1341 UC - Dignity of Man (Civil Rights) Act
* 1389 UC - Decency Ordinances
* 1457 UC - Public Order Act
* 1467 UC - Privacy Act
* 1508 UC - Industrial Processes Act
* 1567 UC - Public Forgatherings (Gambling) Act
* 1581 UC - Being Bloody Stupid Act
* 1634 UC - Projectile Weapons (Civil Safety) Act
* 1673 UC - Domestic & Domesticated Animals (Care & Protection) Act
* 1678 UC - General Felonies Act
* 1678 UC - Public Ale Houses (Opening) Act
* 1433, 1456, 1463, 1465 and 1470-1690 UC Licensed Premises (Hygiene) Acts

Sources: Turtle Recall The Discworld Companion

==== 6.3 Other ====

* '''The proto-continent of Pangola is split into 2 vast land masses -100,000,000 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''About one hundred million years before the present day, in the period described by the wizard and geologist BORASS as the Borassic era, the proto-continent had clearly split into two vast land masses — Howondaland (named after the continent where his researches were largely carried out) and Lauragatea (partly named after the empire that occupies much of the Counterweight Continent, and partly after his mother).''

* '''XXXX splits off from the larger continent of Lauragatea -30,000,000 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''It was the second, smaller continent of Lauragatea which, some thirty million years before the present, lost the even smaller and deeply mysterious continent known only as XXXX, which wandered off by itself (according to Borass) in search of the geographical equivalent of a cool drink.''

* '''The contents of the Ankh-Morpork History monk privy is emptied into a volcano -10,000,000 UC'''

{{NW}}: ''Anyway, I use the temporal toilet, don’t I?” “A privy that discharges ten million years into the past was not a good idea, Sweeper. I’m sorry I let you persuade me.” “It’s saving us fourpence a week to Harry King’s bucket boys, Qu, and that’s not to be sneezed at. Is it not written, ‘A penny saved is a penny earned?’ Besides, it all lands in a volcano anyway. Perfectly hygienic.”''

* '''Hippos sunbathe on the banks of the river Ankh and the first street is formed as a bamboo replica by Qu performing time experiments -700,000 UC'''

{{NW}}: ''Ankh-Morpork would have been surprised at how pleasant it looked seven hundred thousand years ago. Hippos sunbathed on a sandbank out in midstream and, according to Qu, were getting troublesome lately—he’d had to set up a little temporal fence around the camp at night, so that any hippos trying to wander in among the tents found themselves back in the water with a headache... ...As Lu-Tze approached, a line of joyful, dancing Monks wove their way along a bamboo replica of a street, letting off firecrackers and banging gongs.''

* '''The destruction of [[Um]] and Lu-Tze stares down a mammoth. -58,000 UC'''

{{MM}}: ''“The usual way. One of our golems heard one singing. Imagine that. It’s been underground for sixty thousand years…”''

{{TOT}}: ''“And I know when he is,” said Lobsang. “Only sixty thousand years away. So…” Lu-Tze, when they found him, was looking calmly up at an enormous mammoth At the far end of its trunk, Lu-Tze was saying: “So…you’ve never heard of Rule One, then?”''

* '''Formal Golem becomes the common language of Golems -18,000 UC'''

{{MM}}: ''“I can speak formal Golem. Is this ancient enough for you?”... ...“The common language of golems for the last twenty thousand years,” said Adora Belle.''

* '''Early Ankh-Morpork is built with stone -8,000 UC'''

{{T!}}: ''Ankh-Morpork was built on Ankh-Morpork. Everyone knew that. They had been building with stone here ten thousand years ago. As the annual flooding of the Ankh brought more silt, so the city had risen on its wall until attics had become cellars''

* '''Latest re-founding of Ankh-Morpork -1282 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Initially, they dated from the founding of the city, but Ankh-Morpork has been burned, razed, rebuilt — lost and founded, as it were — many times, and '''various rulers with more pride than sense have started the numbering from 1 all over again''', usually from some vitally important event such as their accession to power.''

* '''The [[Battle of Koom Valley]] 1 UC'''

{{T!}}: ''Forward two thousand years. Would a cube last that long? Hell, they bob up in molten lava!... ...“It’s a two-thousand-year-old legend! Who knows who wanted what?”''

* '''Unseen University is founded by Alberto Malich 1 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''"Unseen University... ...It was founded in what was then known as AM 1282 by Alberto Malich, during the closing days of the Ankh-Morpork Empire (This lasted from AM 1, the building of one of the first cities in what is now the Shades area, until shortly after the founding of UU)."''

* '''[[B'hrian Bloodaxe]] Crowned Low King of the dwarfs on the [[Scone of Stone]] 498 UC'''

{{T5E}}: ''“And he is crowned on the Scone of Stone and sits on it to give his judgments because all the Low Kings have done that ever since B’hrian Bloodaxe, fifteen hundred years ago. It…gives authority.”''

* '''King Murune begins his reign of Lancre 709 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Murune. A past King of LANCRE (709-745)''

* '''The king of Ankh builds a temple (now the royal bank) hoping for a god to show up to inhabit it. 1100 UC'''

{{MM}}: ''“This was the undercroft of the temple,” said Bent, leading the way. “Are you telling me this place doesn’t just look like a temple?” “It was built as a temple, yes, but never used as one.” “Really?” said Moist. “Which god?” “None, as it turned out. One of the kings of Ankh commanded it to be built about nine hundred years ago,”''

* '''The second expedition departs to XXXX from Ankh-Morpork. Approximately 1500 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''It was believed that Xxxx has been the subject of at least two expeditions from Ankh-Morpork; the first, several thousand years ago, was led by a sourcerer and the second, some five hundred years before the present, was never heard of again.''

* '''Sir Gyles and Lady de Murforte starts construction of The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins 1511 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''The Guild as it exists today owes a great debt to its founders, Sir Gyles and Lady de Murforte... ...Work on the new school began in 1511..''

* '''The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins was officially opened 27 August 1512 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins was officially opened by King Cirone II on 27 August 1512''

* '''Vampire, Queen Grimnir the Impaler begins her reign of Lancre 1514 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Grimnir. Queen Grimnir the Impaler (1514-53, 1553-7, 1557-62, 1562-7, 1568-73). A vampire Queen of Lancre. The phrase ‘the Queen is dead, long live the Queen’ is particularly apposite in her case. [WS]''

* '''King Cirone II Establish the first formal post-network and appoints the first ‘Master of the Posts’ 1530 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''In AM1530, King Cirone II established a formal network of messengers and horses along important routes and he appointed the first ‘Master of the Posts’ to administer the system and to ensure that it worked to maximum efficiency.''

* '''The [[Brotherhood of Infernal Zoth, the Undying Renderer]] wiped out by a suspiciously localised earthquake. Site purchased by the [[Fools' Guild]]. 1547 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Little is known about the origins of the building which was to become the Guild House. It features in some early records of Unseen University as ‘the Plague House’, and the last known occupants before the mysterious fire and highly localised earthquake in 1547 were apparently The Brotherhood of Infernal Zoth the Undying Renderer, a contemplative order.''

* '''The Ankh-Morpork City Watch is founded 1561 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''The Ankh-Morpork City Watch was founded, in 1561, by King Veltrick I.''

* '''The Fools Guild is founded by Monsieur Jean-Paul 1567 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''It was in fact Monsieur Jean-Paul Pune who founded the Guild in 1567, when he came to Ankh-Morpork from Quirm in search of people with a better sense of humour who didn’t keep trying to drown him.''

* '''The first City Watch badge is made 1572 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''When Veltrick HI took the throne in 1572, he was approached by the city’s merchants and agreed to make a modest allowance for the continued running of the City Watch. It was he who commissioned the striking of the first Watch badge, a plain disc or shield of copper''

* '''The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins has its status elevated to that of a Guild and renamed: "the Royal Guild of Assasssins" 1576 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''In 1576, it was invited by the city’s elders to elevate its status to that of a Guild, giving it voting rights in the city’s Guild Council, It then changed its name to the Royal Guild of Assassins''

* '''The Ankh-Morpork Post Office building is opened 1635 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''By AM1635, King Lorenzo I (father of Lorenzo the Kind) had decided that the general public could also use the King’s Letter Office of Ankh-Morpork and the Sto Plains.''

* '''Baron von Wendeltreppe-Stecken-pferd was inhumed by Croydon Minimus armed with a one-armed teddy bear. 1687 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''One exhibit which usually exercises the minds of boys for many a long night is the one-armed teddy bear (Mr Wuggle) used by Croydon Minimus to inhume the Baron von Wendeltreppe-Stecken- pferd in 1687.''

* '''[[The Battle of Ankh-Morpork]] 1688 UC'''

''The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688... ...The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city. ran from 8.32 p.m., 3 Grune, 432 to 10.45 a.m., 4 Grune 432''

Turtle Recall: ''The Century of the Fruitbat was therefore the twentieth century. The Ankh-Morpork Civil War, which took place in 432 by the city count at the time, took place in AM 1688 by the more reliable University calendar''

* '''Gumler Vode is condemned for eternity to measure the length of endless street Approximately 1700 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Endless Street, Ghost of. Endless Street, Ankh-Morpork, is the name of the street running entirely around the city centre inside the city wall. It is said to be haunted by the ghost of one Gumler Vode, condemned for eternity to measure its length. Vode’s unfortunate sentence began some three hundred years ago.''

* '''The freehold of the main Assassins Guild premises are gambled away and passed seamlessly to Sir John Ramkin 1767 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''Regrettably, in 1767, following a rash wager by the then head of the Guild, who believed that two pairs could beat any other hand, the freehold of the main Guild premises passed seam- lessly to Sir John ‘Mad Jack’ Ramkin, and has remained in the possession of the Ramkin family until recently, when it became part of the marriage gift of Lady Sybil RAMKIN to Sir Samuel VIMES, later His Grace the Duke of Ankh, with whom the Guild has a good working relationship.''

* '''Rascal, Methodia paints ‘The Battle of Koom Valley’ 1802 UC'''

Turtle Recall: Rascal, ''Methodia. Born, painted famous picture, thought he was a chicken, died. He’s believed to have painted around Discworld year 1802.''

* '''The [[Diet of Bugs]] 1880 UC'''

{{T5E}}: ''“No silver has been mined in Uberwald since the Diet of Bugs in AM1880, and the possession of the metal is technically illegal.”''

* '''The latest battle of Koom Valley is fought Approximately 1900 UC'''

{{T!}}: ''“About a hundred years old,” he said. “From the last big battle, a hundred years ago.''

==== 6.4 People ====

* '''-53 UC - Alberto Malich is born'''

Turtle Recall: ''Although in real years he is only about sixty-seven, he has been alive while two thousand years have passed on the Disc.''

* '''947 UC - Gladys is born'''

{{MM}}: ''“Er…how old are you, Gladys?” said Moist carefully. “One Thousand And Fifty-Four Years, Mr. Lipwig.”''

* '''1200 UC Approximately - Lu-Tze is born'''

Turtle Recall: ''Although he is generally acknowledged to be 800 years old, there are some who claim he is 6,000 years old,''

{{TOT}}: ''HE IS LU-TZE, A HISTORY MONK. EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS OLD. ... ...He had eight hundred years’ worth of experience in steering the thoughts of his superiors''

* '''? UC Rincewind'''

{{S}}: ''What? No! It says I’m a wizard, that’s what! Twenty years behind the staff,''

{{S}}: ''Examine Rincewind, as he peers around the sullen shelves. There are eight levels of wizardry on the Disc; after sixteen years Rincewind has failed to achieve even level one.''

==== 6.5 Not placeable as of now ====

* '''Banishment of [[Ipslore the Red]]'''

{{S}}: ''“We banished an Ipslore thirty years ago,” said Spelter''

* '''The throne of Ankh is abandoned with the death of the last line of the kings of Ankh.'''

{{S}}: ''The throne had been empty for more than two thousand years, since the death of the last of the line of the kings of Ankh.''

* The True Arte of Levitatione begins its occupation of the library rafters

{{S}}: ''the True Arte of Levitatione has spent the last one hundred and fifty years up in the rafters''

* '''TLF -30 years. The wizards start reading the mind of the Great A’Tuin'''

{{TLF}}: ''“There’s a bunch of wizards that have been reading it in shifts for thirty years,” said Rincewind. “All they’ve found out is that Great A’Tuin is looking forward to something.”''

* '''TCOM -5 years Tethis starts living on the Edge'''

{{TCOM}}: ''“I have lived here on the Edge for five years and I have not had the courage,” boomed Tethis''

* '''TCOM -5 years A giant Kraken is swept into the circumfence.'''

{{TCOM}}: ''Terton, lengthman of the 45th Length, hadn’t heard such a clashing since the night a giant kraken had been swept into the Fence five years ago.''

* '''TCOM -8 years Twoflower starts saving for his trip to Ankh-Morpork'''

{{TCOM}}: ''“So I decided to see for myself,” the little man was saying. “Eight years’ saving up, this has cost me. But worth every half-rhinu''

* '''TCOM -200 years Codice of Chimeria kills the last dragon.'''

{{TCOM}}: ''“Dragons don’t exist,” said Hrun flatly. “Codice of Chimeria killed the last one two hundred years ago. I don’t know what we’re seeing, but they aren’t dragons.”''

== Sourcery ==
Sourcery should be placed one year after ''The Light Fantastic'', as it's stated that the luggage "ate a spell book" last year. In the old timeline, [[Talk:Discworld Timeline#Sourcery|someone mentioned that]] this was not possible as that would require the assumption that Vetinari were patrician in ''The Colour of Magic''. I don't see why that is a problem, as ''Guards! Guards!'' makes it clear that it was Vetinari who legalised the Thieves Guild, a state which I believe was already the case in the very first book! Note I'm going through all the books in order now, and I'm currently up to ''Guards! Guards!'', so excuse my ignorance of any facts. [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] ([[User talk:Danochy|talk]]) 02:26, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

==Lu-Tze's birth==
Sorry, but surely the nature of the History Monks means that, while Lu-Tze may have had 800 years of experience from his own perspective, that doesn't ''necessarily'' mean he was born 800 years ago, any more than it means he must have been in his seven-hundred-and-seventies when he stayed with Mrs Cosmopolite as "a young man" thirty years ago? [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 19:31, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Cladh

2023-05-09T10:07:25Z

Daibhid C:

A town in [[Llamedos]] famed for [[Great Bronze Spoon of Cladh, The|its Great Bronze Spoon]], weighing over a ton. This fabled eating utensil from antiquity weighed over a ton. {{CDA}} places the town firmly in [[Llamedos]], despite the name being more Irish or Gaelic than Welsh in sound. Perhaps Llamedos occupies a continuum where Llamedosian shades into its related languages (just as Quirmian is related to the strange ¡[[Olé!]] llanguage spoken where they do [[That Thing With The Bulls]]). Cladh is not mentioned in the text but appears on the Disc map contained in {{CDA}}, as a secondary town in Llamedos.

[[Category: Locations]]
[[Category: Discworld geography]]

Great Bronze Spoon of Cladh, The

2023-05-09T10:06:59Z

Daibhid C:

This fabled eating utensil from antiquity weighed over a ton. Until {{CDA}},uncertain as to whereabouts on the [[Disc]] the location of [[Cladh]] may be found, but the name suggests somewhere with a Celtic ring or resonance to it. Perhaps such an impractical object was meant as a devotional offering to [[Cephut]] or other God of Cutlery. {{CDA}} places the town firmly in [[Llamedos]], despite the name being more Gaelic than Welsh in sound. Perhaps Llamedos occupies a continuum where Llamedosian shades into its related languages (just as Quirmian is related to the strange [[Olé!]] llanguage spoken where they do [[That Thing With The Bulls]]. Cladh is not mentioned in the text but appears on the Disc map contained in {{CDA}}, as a secondary town in Llamedos.

== Annotation ==
This is the first known Discworld placename that appears to have a distinctly "Gaelic" shape to it. The terminal "dh" is a practically silent consonant in Irish Gaelic (un-known in Welsh) and the name is pronounced
"Cla(h)". In Scots Gaelic, it would probably be closer to "Clath".

In Wales and Ireland, there is an old tradition, shamelessly played up for the tourists, of a young man carving an ornate {{wp|Lovespoon|spoon}} from wood for his intended, and offering it to her in lieu of marriage proposal. Perhaps the great bronze spoon was a particularly ardent marriage proposal?
Something similar in Ireland is called the "claddagh"

[[Category: Discworld concepts]]

Llwk-Yu

2022-11-04T13:36:34Z

Daibhid C:

The Llwk-Yu river is the main watercourse running through [[Llamedos]], and passes to the sea through the capital city of [[Pant-y-Girdl]]. The port here has been expanded to allow for a greater volume of barge trade from the river, and for a greater level of import-export trade with [[Ankh-Morpork]].

[[Category: Discworld geography]]

==Annotation==
The spelling has been maintained as used in {{CDA}}, but in the interests of pedantry and slight irritation, it should be pointed out that there is no letter "k" in the Welsh language (used as a referent for Llamedosian). A more accurate spelling might be ''Llwc-Yw'', as in ''yr afon Llwc-Yw'', to fit with Welsh phonetics and alphabet. The "c" is always hard: as in the Flintshire placename "Y Bwcle", "Buckley" in English.

It is pronounced as "look you", which is a stereotyped Welsh interjection.

Roberta E. Biscuit

2022-06-11T13:31:49Z

Daibhid C:

The '''''Roberta E. Biscuit''''' is a paddle-wheel ship working the River [[Quire]] in [[Quirm]]. [[Sam Vimes]] and his family travel aboard her towards the end of events described in {{SN}}.

==Annotation==
In our world, one of the more famous paddle-steamers on the Mississippi was named after the Confederate general Robert E. Lee.

[[Category: Discworld concepts]]
[[Category:Streets and Landmarks of Quirm‎]]

Roberta E. Biscuit

2022-06-11T13:29:39Z

Daibhid C:

The '''''Roberta E. Biscuit''''' is a paddle-wheel ship working the River [[Quire]] in [[Quirm]]. [[Sam Vimes]] and his family travel aboard her towards the end of events described in {{SN}}.

==Annotation==
In our world, one of the more famous paddle-steamers on the Misissipi was named after the Confederate general Robert E. Lee.

[[Category: Discworld concepts]]
[[Category:Streets and Landmarks of Quirm‎]]

Keith

2021-11-08T13:38:50Z

Daibhid C:

Keith is an elderly hippopotamus and a very close friend of [[Roderick]]'s.

Not to be confused with [[Keith the Piper]].

[[Category:Discworld Flora & Fauna]]

Crockett

2021-07-29T15:21:16Z

Daibhid C: /* The Rules */

Crockett, mentioned in [[Snuff]], was first invented at [[St Onan's]] Theological College in [[Ham-on-Rye]] by the priest Jackson Fieldfair. Like [[Cripple Mr Onion]], the rules are very simple.

==The Rules==

*Two sides strive against each other to propel the ball by croquet mallet to the opponent's goal.
*Instead of gently propelling the ball, one should hit it very hard.
*A second cone is not allowed more than once per exchange.
*There is only one tump.
*The above rule does not apply in royal crockett.
*If necessary, a striker may tump several opponents at once. An appeal may be made to the hat man about this.
*The striker cannot tump using a hamper if he breaks his mallet.
*The use of a hawk manoeuvre leads to a foul.
*Sheep wandering onto the pitch do not stop the game.
*A handsaw cannot be fired above a ruminant, particularly if it is offensive.

[[Category:Snuff|Crockett]]
[[Category:Discworld Games|Crockett]]
[[de:Krocket]]

Mountains of the Sun

2021-07-23T13:41:36Z

Daibhid C:

Mentioned in {{MP}}, this is a mountain range which runs roughly rimward to hubward and divides the country of [[Klatch (country)|Klatch]] from the wilder interior of the [[Klatch (continent)|continent]]. The Tsort river rises from the hubward end of the range. They extend down into the Kingdom of [[Howondaland]] and a shadowed valley in their fastness is the last refuge of the imperilled [[N'Tuitif]] tribe.

==Annotation==
On Roundworld, the Mountains of the Moon were a semi-mythical mountain range in Africa where the source of the Nile could supposedly be found, now more-or-less identified as the Rwenzori Mountains on the border of Uganda anf the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

[[Category: Discworld geography]]

Higgs and Meakins

2021-07-17T14:20:04Z

Daibhid C:

An adequate [[chocolate]] shop operating in the city of [[Ankh-Morpork]]. It was introduced in {{TOT}}, where it was frequented by [[Susan Sto Helit|Susan]], although she noted "it wasn't even as if they made very ''good'' chocolates".

They have a Luxury Assortment comprising among others "Caramel Crunch", "Hazelnut Surprise", Strawberry Whirl" and "Orange Creme". The chocolates rest in brown paper inside black and golden boxes.

''"For chocolate that melts in your mouth, not somebody else's"'', take a stroll round to their factory and shop on Equality Street*(G3). This is just off the [[Street of Cunning Artificers]] and is only a strategic retreat away from the [[Royal Art Museum]].

==Annotations==
The slogan is a pastiche of the M&Ms slogan "The milk chocolate melts in your mouth, not in your hands"."

Equality Street is a reference to Quality Street, a popular selection box made by Nestles.

[[Category:Ankh-Morpork Businesses]]
[[Category:Locations]]
[[de:Lecker & Süß]]

Swear and Wells

2021-07-17T14:16:16Z

Daibhid C:

This is another department store on the [[Maul]], and a rival to [[Crumley's]] and [[Horrids]]. It is renowned for its upmarket food hall: this boasts an unparalleled selection of imported [[Überwald]]ean food and drink, the finest wines, the perfect beer such as [[Heisenberg Lager]] and only the very best blood sausage.

==Annotation==

Marks and Spencer, renowned for its upmarket and expensive food retail division.

Swears and Wells was also the name of a department store in London in the 19th and 20th centuries, although apparently better known for fur and children's clothes than food.

[[Category:Ankh-Morpork Businesses]]

Ping

2019-05-15T21:12:40Z

Daibhid C:

{{Character Data
|title= Ping
|photo=
|name=
|age=
|race= [[Human]]

|occupation= [[City Watch|Watchman]]
|appearance= "cautious-looking"

|residence= [[Ankh-Morpork]]

|death=
|parents=
|relatives=
|children=
|marital status=

|books=
|cameos= {{TFE}}, {{NW}}
}}

One of the few new human members of the modern [[Ankh-Morpork City Watch]].

As he is quick to tell anyone who does or doesn't ask, ''ping'' is a dialect word meaning "watermeadow"; that's also the what fellow watchmen call him. He's the type who is always prepared to be questioned, slightly apprehensive, and therefore prone to a lot of bad luck and minor mistakes. In ''Night Watch'' he merely asks about the lilacs he sees the watchmen [[Fred Colon]], [[Nobby Nobbs]] and [[Reg Shoe]] wear on the twenty-fifth of May every year, which causes the normally friendly Sergeant to become rather angry. In ''The Fifth Elephant'', he is the officer who discovers the theft of the replica [[Scone of Stone|Scone]] but misses the thief.

==Annotations==

There are two possible references to the name - {{wp|Ping|Ping}} is an application within the tcp/ip network protocol used to confirm connectivity between two computers. One computer send a short signal (or packet) to another, which then returns the packet to confirm its existance. The name of this application derives from the sound made by {{wp|active_sonar|Active SONAR}} when an echo is returned.

However it could also be a simple reference to a sterotypical oriental style name, such as [[Hongs|Hong]] and [[Tangs|Tang]] (both also used by TP)... A Chinese word pronounced "ping" can be translated to a "plain, or meadow".

According to [https://bbs.boingboing.net/t/rip-terry-pratchett/53542/27 this boing-boing post], Sir Terry actually named Constable Ping after the poster, who told him that his name was a Middle-English word for a watermeadow.

:
[[Category:Discworld characters|Ping]]
[[category:Human characters|Ping]]
[[Category:Watchmen]]
[[de:Ping]]

The Lady's Home Companion

2018-11-12T22:58:16Z

Daibhid C:

Towards the end of {{TT}}, [[William de Worde]] and [[Sacharissa Cripslock]] are discussing profitable spin-offs from newspaper publishing and Sacharissa suggests a [[Magazines|magazine]] of interest to Ladies, which she tentatively gives the title of The Ladies' Home Companion.

By the time of {{MM}}, there is no evidence that such a magazine has hit the streets, but [[Gladys]] the feminized [[Golems|golem]] is an avid reader of something called '''The Ladies' Own Magazine''', a genteel and mannered publication which among other things advocates back and neck rubs to relieve stress and tension caused by the hurly-burly of modern life.

It is possible that this is the final form of the magazine envisaged by Sacharissa.

==Annotation==

The ''Woman's Home Companion'' was a well-known [[Roundworld]] publication in N. America from 1887 to 1956. It began life as the ''Ladies' Home Companion'' a year earlier.

'''The Ladies' Own Magazine''' falls possibly somewhere between [[Roundworld]]'s ''Women's Own'' (the name), ''Hello'' and the genteel ladies' magazines of the 50s and 60s?

[[Category:Discworld publications|Lady's Home Companion,The]]
[[de:Magazin für die Dame]]

Quarry Lane

2018-11-12T22:57:03Z

Daibhid C:

'''Quarry Lane''' runs from [[Sticken Place]] to the [[Fiveways]] and can be seen as a widdershins extension of [[Chittling Street]]. Sticken Place stands at the hub-by-widdershins corner of the [[Cattle Market]], and this gives an indirect clue as to the ethnic and racial nature of the population who have colonised the area, especially around the intersection with [[Clay Lane]].

Quarry Lane marks an area of the city which [[Trolls|trolls]] have chosen to make their own. As has been noted elsewhere, trolls tend to do jobs which the city's human population would find distasteful or dirty. The proximity of the Cattle Markets points to a troll workforce prepared, for instance, to hose down and scrub animal pens after use by several hundred worried and incontinent oxen, and to deal with the large amounts of "industrial waste" that might build up in the animal-slaughtering businesses around the [[Shambles]]. (Trolls can distinguish between organic smells, but are neutral towards them, in the same way humans tend to be neutral towards the smells and associations of various sorts of rocks and gravels. In the same way, a troll with a shovel can recognize a great big pile of doodah, but will just shrug disinterestedly as he clears it up). Apparently the day to avoid around the Cattle Markets is Friday, as most of the dung-clearance is done then in preparation for the weekend.

Quarry Lane featured as a location in {{MAA}}, where [[Detritus]] and [[Cuddy]], escaping from a multi-species mob bent on cop-killing, fall through a very convenient hole and rediscover the [[Cloaca Maxima]].

Quarry Lane is also a location in {{FOC}}, where Angua takes [[Cheery Littlebottom]] on an introduction to street policing and basic asking-of-difficult-questions. This involves a visit to [[Igneous]] The Troll's All Night-Pottery, which is located here.

''[[The Streets of Ankh-Morpork]]'' reveals that the [[Cavern Club]], where [[The Band With Rocks In]] performed, is located here.

==Annotation==
As mentioned in the Cavern Club entry, the troll nightclub is named after the Roundworld venue where the Beatles got big. It may not be coincidence that John, Paul and George's original band was called the Quarrymen.

[[Category:Streets of Ankh-Morpork]]
[[de:Steinbruchweg]]

Book:Unseen Academicals/Annotations

2018-08-11T21:49:25Z

Daibhid C:

== [[Book:Unseen Academicals|Unseen Academicals]] Annotations ==

General:-

It has been suggested that the opening pages of the book, in which Rudolf Scattering, night-watchman at the Royal Art Museum receives a nasty surprise, is a deliberate parody of Dan Brown's mystery thrillers of the ''Da Vinci Code'' genre.

[[Pedestriana]] - the plucky barefoot Goddess of Football. According to the Guardian, (edition of 30/12/09), in an article on the weird compulsion of men to collect, in this case a man with a desire to own a match programme for ''every'' game ever played by London side Tottenham Hotspur. The newspaper reproduces the front cover of the 1921 F.A. Cup Final programme, which features...guess what... a robed and barefoot Goddess of Football, the winged angel standing bare of foot atop the ball... documentary evidence, hopefully, will follow...[http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jcprogrammes.co.uk/images/1921.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.jcprogrammes.co.uk/Top_Sellers&usg=__CyDPShHA8tx7m4LNmGsFF_d1X00=&h=301&w=200&sz=57&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=Q4vZroN2lUWNFM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=77&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFA%2BCup%2Bfinal,%2B1921,%2Bprogramme%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26cr%3DcountryUK%257CcountryGB%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1]

The name ''Dimwell'' seems close to ''Millwall'', area and football club in London noted for the belligerence of their supporters. House chant:
''Nobody loves us. And we don't care!'' Once combined an away visit to Manchester City with looting jeweller's shops on Wilmslow Road whilst the police were marching them to the ground. Two thousand fans overwhelmed three coppers and in the subsequent Shove, managed to gut a jewellers. See here for discussion:- [http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=121060]

Dimwell, like Millwall for London, is a dockside area that must provide most of Ankh-Morpork's stevedores, dockers and longshoremen. In fact: one of Andy Shanks' associates shares out the bounty at one point - of loose goods purloined while working a casual shift at the docks, unloading an incoming ship.

There are a fair number of "Lord of the Rings" references in "Unseen Academicals." Is [[micromail]] (see reference in article for alternative in sci-fi/fantasy) a reference to Frodo's mithril shirt? A metal called "moonsilver" is cited by Pepe as being a major component of micromail - "moonsilver" is a translation of the elvish "mithril".

A recurring theme throughout the book is Mr Nutt's search for ''worth''. This leads him to many uncomfortable, even dangerous, places, and involves mental and emotional anguish, at one point a near-Death experience.

Later in the book, he has the Margolotta-guided insight that the worth he seeks is not a property of deeds or created things, but an ongoing process of creation.

This echoes the quest of the narrator of Robert M. Pirsig's work of popular philosophy, '''''Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance''''', who undergoes similar travails in search of elusive ''quality'' only to realise it isn't so much a ''thing'' as an ongoing ''process''. {{SM}} apart, there are no motorbikes on the Discworld. Pirsig's character grounds himself via looking after his motorcycle - but Mr Nutt is an accomplished amateur blacksmith who succeeds in re-shoeing the most difficult horse on the Quirm Flyer (horses are as near as the Disc gets, in general?)

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.11)''' '''''Speaking of Glenda's teddy bear, Mr. Wobble. "Traditionally, in the lexicon of pathos, such a bear should have only one eye, but as the result of a childhood error in Glenda's sewing, he has three, and is more enlightened than the average bear."'''''

The picnic basket-stealing cartoon character, Yogi Bear, is frequently described as "smarter than the average bear." It is also a reference to "opening one's third eye", a feature of several spiritual traditions, usually having to do with gaining insight into the workings of the universe. The word "yogi" can also mean a practitioner of some of these traditions.

'''(Corgi paperback, UK, p28)''' '''''Hunting the Megapode''''' The Roundworld equivalent, {{wp|Wren_Day|The Hunting of the Wrens}}, is forgotten almost as totally as the Discworld version. The {{wp|Megapode|megapode}} is a real bird, whose name appropriately enough means "Bigfoot". The Megapode Hunt may also refer to the Oxford tradition of Hunting the Mallard, as suggested in The Culture of Discworld.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p27)''' '''''"in most cases the minutes could be written beforehand"''''' Ponder Stibbons' technique for creating minutes of Faculty meetings is, in purpose and execution, identical to standard British Civil Service policy. (As described in the great satire of government life, '''Yes, Prime Minister''', in which Sir Humphrey Appleby is an adept at predicting in advance how a meeting will work out and can quite safely dictate the minutes in advance.)

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p36)''' '''''"No one could have been neutral when the Dark War had engulfed Far Überwald"'''''. A sideways reference to Tolkien's {{wp|Middle-earth|Middle-earth}}, perhaps, especially in the light of Mr Nutt's [[Orcs|species]] and their perceived role in the Dark War of antiquity. '''''"Alas, when the time came to write down their story, his people hadn't even got a pencil"'''''. Unlike more favoured races who had time and liberty to craft entire ''Red Books of Westmarch'' to get their side of the story out first... the Dark War is referred to on page 58 by Vetinari and on page 60 by Ridcully, where Vetinari likens the playing pieces on the Thud board to the Dark Hordes, in their lack of free will and their having been crafted for a single purpose - to fight. Ridcully reflects on what "the monsters" had been bred to do, and wonders what became of the thousands upon thousands of ''them'' who were bred to fight. Also, re-referencing Middle-earth, Treebeard speculates that Saruman had crossbred Orcs and Men, which he calls "a black evil", to create the {{wp|Uruk-hai|Uruk-hai}}, perfect fighting machines to fight in a war that engulfs a large area of land... Vetinari himself notes that it wasn't Igoring goblins that produced orcs, but using humans, in whom the natural capacity for violence and evil is so much greater. There's also a slight resonance with the original Tolkien orcs which were created when (Middle-earthen) elves were betrayed and corrupted. In neither case are they natural creatures - they have been twisted into these shapes through evil intent. In the Jackson film version of the LOTR, they are even ''more'' "bred": the Uruk-hai are dug from the ground in a grotesque birthing sequence. There is a reference to the spawning of Orcs from the ground earlier in the book, where Nutt is contemplating the tallow vats, permanently bubbling and seething, (as per the film) as a place where he finds himself feeling safe and peaceful in an odd and nursery-like way. ''People in the streets had jeered to him that he'd been made in a vat. Although Brother Oats had told him that this was silly, the gently bubbling tallow had called to him. He felt at peace here.'' ('''p33''')

It is also worth noting that the phrase '''''"No one could have been neutral..."''''' has associations when one ponders the evolution of the fantasy fiction novel. J.R.R. Tolkien's master work has a rather simplistic two-dimensional ''"you are either Good or Evil and that's all there is to it.''" feel about the morality and the motivation of characters. As Tolkien's Middle Earth was heavily influenced by Tolkien's Christianity, and the notion that all that is Good comes of faith in and duty to God, while all that is Evil comes of rejection of God and joining in the Fall, this dichotomy excludes a Third Way.

The Third Way is introduced by fantasy writer Michael Moorcock, who thought about the mechanics involved, and came up with a moral picture drawn as much from science as from mysticism. Moorcock, drawing his cue from the scientific laws of thermodynamics, insisted the primal struggle in the Multiverse was not between Good and Evil but between the opposed forces of Law and Chaos. After making that primal alignment, a character was free to make a secondary alignment with Good, Evil or the third state - '''''Neutral''''' - as he or she pleased.

Being of the Law does not necessarily mean you are Good - consider the [[Auditors]] - and being of Chaos does not necessarily mean you are Evil. Consider Ronnie [[Soak]].

Moorcock's system offers so much choice and scope for delineating more complex three-dimensional characters that [[Dungeons and Dragons]] creator Gary Gygax adopted it wholesale. But here, in the Discworld, we are being explicitly told it is not an option - '''''"No one could have been Neutral when the Dark War had engulfed Far Überwald"''''' The Dark War takes its referents, therefore, from Tolkien and not Moorcock/Gygax.

('''''More Here:- [[http://wiki.lspace.org/index.php?title=Reading_suggestions&section=32]]. Ref.''''' author Mary Gentle and book "''Grunts''". In which a captured Orc is heavily laden with chains and secured to an anvil in the hope that this renders it dormant.)

Mary Gentle, like Neil Gaiman, is the subject of a dedication of an earlier Discworld book (the [[H.P. Lovecraft Holiday Fun Club]] consisted of her and several others from the new wave of British sci-fi/fantasy, including Neil). ''Two'' previous Discworld novels, in fact: she gets an explicit personal dedication in {{G!G!}}. It would seem logical then, that TP is aware of her writing and has perhaps referenced it in the Discworld.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p45)''' '''''Ridcully swayed backwards, like a man subjected to an attack by a hitherto comatose sheep'''''

In the UK House of Commons in June 1978 the Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer was Denis Healey.
He described being attacked in June 1978 by mild mannered Conservative shadow Chancellor Geoffrey Howe as ''"like being savaged by a dead sheep".''

Such an attack can be lethal if timed right. The selfsame Sir Geoffrey Howe, formerly a fawning loyalist, lost his temper in 1990 and launched a bitter and scathing speech to a packed Commons that contributed to the downfall of the previously unassailable Margaret Thatcher. Within a fortnight of Howe's attack - again likened to that of a dead sheep - she was gone, deposed as PM.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p46)''' '''''-How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless Dean'''''

Shakespeare is being paraphrased here. King Lear's furious and anguished speech of betrayal on being (apparently) rejected by an ungrateful child, despite everything he has done for her, in which he at first wishes infertility on her, and then

''If she must teem,''

''Create her child of spleen; that it may live,''

''And be a thwart disnatured torment to her!''

''Let it stamp wrinkles in her brow of youth;''

''With cadent tears fret channels in her cheeks;''

''Turn all her mother's pains and benefits''

''To laughter and contempt; that she may feel''

'''''How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is'''''

'''''To have a thankless child!''''' ''Away, away!''

from '''''King Lear''''' [http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/188900.html]

Other Shakeperian references, filtered on the Discworld through the prolific pen of the dwarf [[Hwel]], occur on '''''page 167''''', where Ridcully and Stibbons are considering the ball that goes ''gloing!'' (''There are more things in Heaven and Disc than are dreamed of in our philosophies...'').
And on '''''page 387,''''', where Glenda and Mr Nutt go to the theatre to witness a Hix-suggested production by the [[Dolly Sisters Players]], called '''''Starcrossed''''', also written by Hwel. This not only continues the ''Romeo and Juliet'' motif running through the book, it is explicitly described as ''one of the great romantic plays of the last fifty years''. In our timescale, the Bernstein/Sondheim musical '''''West Side Story''''', where the plot of ''Romeo and Juliet'' is updated to warring city street gangs, was first performed in 1957, making it 52 years old.

I don't think it's pressing things too far to suggest that the evil Dr Hix's love of amateur dramatics might be a sly dig at one CMOT Briggs...

Another piece of Python-esque British humour that can be referenced here is the classic radio comedy sketch performed by the ''Son of Cliché'' troupe (including a very young and pre-Arnold Rimmer comedian called Christopher Barrie), in which the FA Cup final of 1982 is re-written as though it were a Shakesperian play of the heroic ''Henry V'' genre being performed at London's National Theatre.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.49)''' '''''"Just speak with a little more class, eh? You don't have to sound like--"'''''

'''''"My fare, lady?"'''''

Referring to "My Fair Lady" where street flower seller Eliza Doolittle improves her cockney speech to the point where she's taken for a fine lady at an embassy ball.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p51)''' '''''"Miss Healstether found him a book on scent"'''''. Mr Nutt's early life, education and reception by his peers is reminiscent of that of the character Grenouille in Patrick Süskind's novel '''''Perfume''''', who is similarly scorned, hated, and making his way up (or at least across) from the bottom. It is also worth noting that Grenouille was raised by a priest, for at least part of his life, and was effectively chained to a Hell-like cellar apprenticeship until offered opportunity to better himself. Like Steerpike in Gormenghast, (another literary anti-hero who has a similar early life), Grenouille finally becomes a manipulative monster with a sinister power over people...

'''Football team colours''' - from Wikipedia:-

*The leader in the Giro d'Italia cycle race wears a pink jersey (''maglia rosa''); this reflects the distinctive pink-colored newsprint of the sponsoring Italian La Gazzetta dello Sport newspaper.
*The University of Iowa's Kinnick Stadium visitors' locker room is painted pink. The decor has sparked controversy, perceived by some people as suggesting sexism and homophobia.
* Palermo, a soccer team based in Palermo, Italy, traditionally wears pink home jerseys.

Palermo is also the heart of Mafia and Machismo country, in Sicily: presumably they have transcended the whole pink thing as immaterial.

The Hungarian international strip appears to be red and green with pink trim.

The Liseberg district of Gothenberg in Sweden hosts three soccer clubs. The local city colours are pink and green, which goes back to mediaeval times, but alas none of the three clubs plays in them.

One manufacturer of soccer favours markets a pink-and-green scarf, but regrettably there's no clue as to which club it is associated with.

In many cities in the North of England, in pre-Internet and pre-Sky TV days, there would be a late edition of the Saturday evening paper, carrying nothing but the final sports results of the day, and it would be printed on pink paper. (Except in Sheffield, where for some reason it was the Sporting Green). Pink and Green again...

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p52)''' '''''Miss Healstether sounded bitter. "Stand by then, because he's discovered the [[Bonk School]]."'''''
This is the Discworld equivalent of later German/Austrian philosophers such as Wittgenstein. On Roundworld, the Vienna School is also a collective name used for the emergent psychoanalysts of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, such as Freud, Jung and Adler, whose works are often taught in university philosophy departments for want of anywhere less controversial to pigeon-hole them. This leads to several amusingly entertaining associations: given Mr Nutt's later destiny as football team manager, with the more reflective, introverted and philosophical sort of squad boss such as Sven-Göran Eriksson. There are also echoes of famously philosophical players, such as the Manchester United and France star Eric Cantona, an interview with whom could easily befuddle the average back-page journalist, as Cantona was (and is) fond of peppering interviews with philosophical ''apercus''. Also, need we mention the classic Monty Python sketch where the whole of the German and Greek international football teams are made up of their nations' respective star philosophers? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiZt79UKUFQ] The one exception in the German team, who deserves mention for going along with the joke, is the then West German national football team captain Franz Beckenbauer, who appears on the field looking frustrated at the philosophical reflection and lack of football going on around him.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p53)''' '''''"They are the ones who go on about what happens if ladies don't get enough mutton, and they say cigars are--"
"That is a fallacy!"'''''

Sigmund Freud, when asked if his cigar was a phallic symbol, is supposed to have said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

A similar phallus/fallacy joke has appeared in a previous Discworld book in reference to witches' broomsticks.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p67)''' '''''"They're two teams alike in villainy."'''''

Prologue to "Romeo and Juliet" "Two households, both alike in dignity..." It could also be an example of football commentators' random (if sometimes intellectual) phrases...

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p70)''' '''''"But I'm a Face, right?"'''''. Trevor Likely's proud assertion of his status in the ranks of the Dimmers, and his being known throughout all the Boroughs, reflects British soccer hooligan counter-culture where the leaders, best fighters, and other notorious individuals in the various Firms are known as Faces. The term was also used by counter-cultural young male gangs in the 1950's and 1960's: Teddy Boys in the 50's, and Mods and Rockers in the 60's, most notorious gang members and hardest fighters were called Faces. In the latter case - 1960's scooter mods - there is even a musical about it: the Who's rock opera ''Quadrophenia'', about London Mods, has a song called ''I'm the Face''.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p73)''' ''''' 'Gentlemen' Ridcully began ...'or should I say, fellow workers by hand and brain' '''''

'Workers by hand and brain' is a key phrase in original Clause IV for the British Labour Party. This was written by Beatrice and Sidney Webb, leading members of the Fabian Society.

''To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service''

Clause IV was revised (not abolished) in 1995.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p80)'''. With regard to the makeover of Professor Hicks into the University's licensed evil wizard. In his physical description and general attitude, is there a certain sly reference creeping in to the teaching wizards of Slytherin House, in a certain J.K. Rowling's fantasies about a school of wizardry? Or, indeed, to a certain Dark Lord whose name cannot be uttered, save that it most coincidentally also begins with a "V"? And all this is in the context a of a sport which wizards must learn to love (if only to stop their cornucopia drying up and the flow of big dinners ebbing to a trickle.) A sport which most categorically must be played within agreed rules, with no magic ''at all'' being used, which involves getting a resolutely un-magical ball into a goal. Anyone for Quidditch, whoops sorry, Foot-the-Ball? Interestingly, when Ridcully is temporarily possessed by the shade of PE master Evans the Striped, it is Hix who performs a crude but effective exorcism with the knob on the end of his staff. What might Hix be able to reveal about the act of insorcism that put Evans' soul in there in the first place?

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p87)''': ''Glenda would have followed him like a homing vulture'' A reference to ex-Python Michael Palin's gritty slice of Northern working-class life, ''The Testing of Eric Olthwaite'', in which the little-known Northern English sport of racing homing vultures is discussed at great length. It is possible one of Reg Bag's prize homing vultures was called ''Glenda''.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p107)''' '''''"I just happened to be holding a knife. You are holding a knife.We hold knives. This is a kitchen."'''''

Reminiscent of "The Lion in Winter", where Queen Elanor says "Of course he has a knife, he always has a knife, we all have knives! It's 1183 and we're barbarians!"

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p113)''' '''''"Oh, Mr Trevor Likely" said Glenda, folding her arms. "Just one question: who ate all the pies?"'''''

This is a classic chant to be heard across British football grounds. Fans tend to be merciless to a player perceived as having fallen from the pinnacle of physical fitness and to have put weight on, in the form of visible fat. The full chant, aimed at the luckless fat boy, runs: ''Who ate all the pies? Who ate all the pies? '''''You''''' fat bastard, '''''you''''' fat bastard, you ate all the pies!'' (tune: '''Knees up, Mother Brown'''). Footballers thus singled out for dietary advice from the terraces have included England's idiot savant and flawed genius, Paul Gascoigne.

A charming piece of trivia. ''Who ate all the pies?'' is quite possibly the oldest known fan chant to have been continuously sung on English terraces. It was born in honour of {{wp|William_Foulke_(footballer)|William Henry "Fatty" Foulke}}, the legendary Sheffield United goalkeeper whose playing career spanned 1894-1910. Six foot two and a svelte twelve stone at the start of his career, he was an early victim of success and the extravagant professional footballer lifestyle (Edwardian style). By 1902, he was estimated to weigh twenty-five stones (350 pounds) ''and was still playing top-level football.'' His Sheffield United faithful sang it in his honour, albeit without the "you fat bastard" line. You wonder if Terry was aware of this when he wrote the character of the Ankh United goalkeeper, who is seen eating and gorging his way through the big game...
:Rotund, pie-eating keepers are still seen, at least in the National League, but the Association is clamping down...see [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/sports/soccer/wayne-shaw-sutton-soccer-pie.html Wayne Shaw].

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.122)''' '''''Robert Scandal's famous poem, "Oi! To his Deaf Mistress".'''''

Refers to Andrew Marvell's "To His Coy Mistress".

Also '''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p122)''' '''''Nutt was technically an expert on love poetry throughout the ages... he had tried to discuss it with Ladyship, but she had laughed and said that it was frivolity, although quite useful as a tutorial on the art of vocabulary, scansion rhythm, and affect as a means to an end, to wit, getting a young lady to take all her clothes off.'''''

This is suspiciously reminiscent of Sigismundo Celine's reflections on romantic poetry, in guerrilla ontologist Robert Anton Wilson's '''''The historical Illuminatus: The Widow's Son'''''. In which the wunderkind Celine, imprisoned in the Bastille, passes time by reading the prison library. He decides about love poems that

''they mostly argue the case that a Certain Woman is like a certain Natural Phenomenon (sunlight, stars, birds, flowers, et c) and that the poet's heart, in response to this fact, was like another Natural Phenomenon (parched desert, wounded animal, dark cave, et c) and that there was only one natural resolution to this natural conjunction of natural phenomena. He gathered that she would have to take her clothes off.'' (p. 149 R.A.Wilson, '''''The Widow's Son''''', Lynx Books, New York, pub. 1985) For more Wilson and hints on other ways his thoughts and ideas might have filtered through Pratchett's brain and into Discworld, see Reading Suggestions).

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.124)''' '''''[S]omeone at the Royal Art Museum had found the urn in an old storeroom, and it contained scrolls which, it said here, had the original rules of foot-the-ball laid down in the early years of the century of the Summer Weevil, a thousand years ago, when the game was played in honour of the goddess Pedestriana.'''''

As gods and religion are involved, it may be of note that a similar incident is described in the Bible, specifically in 2 Kings Ch. 22. Supposedly, a "Book of the Law" was found in the Temple, dating back centuries to Moses himself, but which had somehow been lost. As the book described rules that were in the best interests of the Temple and the priests there, scholars who aren't Biblical fundamentalists generally suspect that the ancient book (likely an early version of what we now call Deuteronomy) had been recently composed.

This being the Discworld, this book of rules apparently is ancient ''and'' has just been composed.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p135)''' '''''"Good point, well put," said Ridcully, "and I shall marshal my responses thusly." He flicked a finger and, with a smell of gooseberries and a pop, a small red globe appeared in the air over the table.'''''

Is this a magical powerpoint demonstration?

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p158)''' '''''"Dolly Sisters, right? Sounds like the Botney Street area. I'm sure of it". said Pépé ''''' This is in the crab-bucket discourse, about how people from lowly areas with big ideas are beaten back into thinking small by their peers.

Satirical magazine '''''Private Eye''''' once revealed a secret about BBC Arts supremo, talking head on the gentler, more refined, things in life, and broadcasting giant, Alan Yentob. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Yentob] Although Yentob adamantly denies it, the Eye revealed that he was born in lowly circumstances in East London as Alan ''Botney'', and reversed his surname for professional reasons to make it look more interesting and artsy. Yentob/Botney has refrained, however, from suing the Eye for libel over this assertion. Is this a hidden reason for Terry's naming a street in Lobbin Clout after him?

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p167)''' '''''"You gave the ball a mighty kick, Mister Stibbons, and yet you are, by your own admission, a wet and a weed."'''''
Molesworth, a schoolboy and the narrating character in a series of books by Geoffrey Willans, would consistently refer to his brother, Molesworth 2, as "a wet and a weed."

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p198)''' '''''"Owlspring-Tips diagram"'''''

The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertzsprung%E2%80%93Russell_diagram Herzsprung-Russell diagram] is used in astronomy to plot the absolute magnitude of stars against their spectral class.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p201)''' '''''"That's right, of course" said the former Dean. "Your father was a butcher, as I recall".'''''
Later on, there is explicit mention of the large, strong, hands Ridcully inherited from his butcher father.
There is a continuity problem here: when Ridcully first enters the series in {{MP}}, it is explicitly said that he became a seventh-level mage at a phenomenally young age, then retired from active Wizarding to return home and run the extensive family estates. Certainly, his demeanour and behaviour is that of the rumbustious country squire who drinks port by the pint and considers slaughtering the wildlife to be a perk of social rank. Such a man would not concern himself with butchering, save in the rough-and-ready method utilised just after a successful hunt. Similarly, a butcher would not normally be expected to kill his animals - in normal circumstances, they arrive freshly killed by somebody else. And to be able to afford large country estates, you would surely need be a ''very successful'' butcher? Something of a problem here, I fear. On '''page 41''', Ridcully's grandfather is first mentioned as a religiously-inclined prizefighter who made musical boxes for a living and who scored two goals against Dimwell ''in one match''. This can be excused and incorporated into the canon without breaking continuity with what we already know about Ridcully - everybody gets two grandfathers, after all. But the wiggle room disappears when his father is described as a city-based butcher and not a country squire.... It is possible that the land comes from his mother's side of the family. Being the offspring of a frowned-upon marriage (highborn lady, lowborn butcher) may well explain some of Ridcully's stubborn attitude.

Also, the book suggests Ridcully was brought up in Ankh-Morpork and his butcher father took him to football matches. This really doesn't square with what we know about the Ridcully brothers from previous books in the series.

However, it is mentioned that not all those experiences were true ones. Ponder, for instance, remembers being taken to see the football by his father despite being raised by an aunt.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p200)''' '''''"You are after the Hat" said Ridcully, flatly.'''''

The rivalry between Mustrum and, er, Henry, crystallises in Henry's offer that the two magical Universities should fight it out on the field of sport, the stake being the [[Archchancellor's Hat]] in which reposes the soul of Wizardry and the essence of many thousands of Archchancellors past. This is made clear in an earlier dialogue on pp197-199.

There is a continuity problem here with events in {{S}}. Having got the Hat out of Ankh-Morpork over to Klatch and therefore temporarily out of reach of the Sourcerer, Rincewind and Conina are imprisoned by the wicked vizier Abrim, who takes the Hat for his own. Abrim then builds a tower and challenges Ankh-Morpork, but owing to intervention by the Luggage, is distracted for just long enough for concentrated magic to blow him, the tower, and most crucially the Hat, into tiny tiny smithereens. After Abrim's destruction, the Hat is never heard of again - it is presumed destroyed, atomized by greater forces. It is certainly not used again as a plot device in {{S}}, and is in the fullness replaced by Ridcully's wilderness-survival Hat: a symbol of a different University with different priorities. Yet on pp225-227, Vetinari discusses the Hat as if it is still in physical existence, none the worse for its trip to Klatch and its last known wearing on the head of a failed wizard who was blasted into his component atoms.

Unless Henry and Mustrum are playing for a purely symbolic Hat (which like the Ashes never leaves London, however often Australia beat England), or the original Hat was included in Coin's promise to the Librarian to restore everything to what it was, as good as old (but it is never mentioned again in the canon, until now?), then it's hard to see anything other than a continuity glitch here.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p202)''' '''''Ponder Stibbons says "I'm even the Camerlengo, which means that if you drop dead, Archchancellor, from any cause other than legitimate succession under the Dead Man's Pointy Shoes tradition, I run this place until a successor is elected which, given the nature of wizardry, will mean a job for life."'''''

The [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03217a.htm Camerlengo](Italian for "chamberlain) of the Roman Catholic Church is, among other duties, the person in charge of the Vatican between the death of one pope and the election of the next. His job is not normally as exciting as Dan Brown describes it in "Angels and Demons."

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p203)''' '''''"Most of them were old enough to recall at least two pitched battles among factions of wizards, the worst of which had only been brought to a conclusion by Rincewind, wielding a half-brick in a sock..."'''''

As described at the end of ''"Sourcery."''

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p224)''' '''''Glenda says "You're giving them Avec. Nearly every dish has got Avec in it, but stuff with Avec in the name is an acquired taste."'''''

"Avec" is the French (and probably restaurant Quirmian) word for "with."

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p251)''' '''''"What is your favourite spoon?"'''''

Pepe has just informed Glenda that a lot of people want to ask Juliet some very important questions, including this one.

The satirical magazine '''''Private Eye''''' carries a "Me and My Spoon" column in every edition, in which a celebrity is quizzed minutely about their favourite spoon. This column is meant as a joke at the expense of those journalists - not always on gossip/trivia magazines of the [[Bu-Bubble]] type - who persist in asking the most vacuous, trivial, and lazy questions of the people they are interviewing. As a sort of foreshadowing of this, Vetinari is seen to be playing with a spoon during the dinner at the University, thoughtfully studying it and the way the varying concavity and convexity of it alters his reflection.

Interestingly, a place-name with an unambiguously Irish ring to it - ''Cladh'' - is introduced here. Until now - with the possible exception of a couple of minor character names - there has not been a hint of anywhere Ireland-like on the Disc, although there is a Wales-like country and a suspiciously Caledonian aura to the NacMac Feegle. Is this a portent for the future? ''Cladh", pronounced "Cla(h)'', may derive from an Irish Gaelic root for "circle" or "ring".

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p272-273)'''
The crowd gathering to witness Nutt in his travail, chained to a bench and fully aware of his Orc-hood for the first time. The named speakers are a Butcher and a Baker. Who are looking upon Nutt, a Candle(stick)maker....

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p282)''' '''''"Is this going to be like the Moving Pictures?"'''''

Given that Dr Hix, via a handy Omniscope, is proposing to replay part of the Battle of '''Orc's Deep''', then the answer may be "yes". This could well be a back handed tribute to the film adaptation of ''{{wp|The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Two_Towers|The Two Towers}}'', the second in the film trilogy of ''The Lord Of The Rings'' dealing with the battle of Helm's Deep, and introducing Orcs as a potent fighting force. The fact Glenda also remembers the Moving Pictures is significant, as she can be no older than twenty. Doubly interesting, in a city where a convenient group amnesia appears to settle at the end of every fad or fancy... Another (minor) continuity slip occurs here: Hix, acknowledging Glenda's reference to the Moving Pictures, refers to "popcorn", a word unknown on the Disc. Which does, however, have "banged grains" (although - continuity slip within continuity slip! - [[Hwel]] briefly mentions "popcorn" in one of his plays during {{WS}}). The second referent is to the Roundworld battle of Rorke's Drift, but this has already been parodied in an orc-related context by fantasy writer Mary Gentle (in her short story "The Battle of Orc's Drift", the Orcs are surprised and stitched up a treat by an enemy with lots of similarity to the Feegle).

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p314)''' '''''"Was it a football team of Orcs?"''''' By his own admission, Terry Pratchett was once heavily involved in fantasy RPG gaming of the "Dungeons and Dragons" variety. A spin-off from D&D, marketed by the British fantasy gaming and world domination corporation Games Workshop, was called '''''Blood Bowl [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Bowl]'''''. In this, a board game/RPG loosely based on American Football, teams drawn from the various fantasy races played each other, utilising their traditional cultural and racial strengths and weaknesses in a sport combining grace, athleticism, and sadistic brutality. It is difficult to believe TP is not aware of this game, nor of the fact that Orcs, being nearest in temperament and body shape to American footballers, had an inbuilt advantage. It may also be a reference to another game by Games Workshop called Warhammer 40,000; the orcs in this series (here called Orks) are often said to have been based on 'English football hooligans' and serve as a comedy relief race in the setting. It is notable that they would be very enthusiastic about the more brutal form of Ankh-Morpork foot-the-ball.

"Orc's Deep" may also have a second level of allusion, to the famous Roundworld battle of Rorke's Drift. However, ''"The Battle of Orc's Drift"'' has already been done by fantasy writer Mary Gentle. (see above) In her story, the Orcs encounter a faerie race not unlike the Feegle...
and in any case, Terry Pratchett has referenced, although not expanded on, a famous Discworld battle at ''Lawke's Drain'', which may have been in Howondaland.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p320)''' "Fartmeister" Carter has just been badly beaten up by the established villain Andy and his gang, at least in part to send an unmistakable message to Trev Likely. This echoes a scene in the classic gangster film '''''Get Carter''''', in which the local mob, inconvenienced by London gangster Carter's attempts to disrupt them, go gunning for him. They miss Carter (Michael Caine), but console themselves by beating his friend and local ally to a bloody pulp. In this case - Carter has been well and truly got.

"Fartmeister" echoes the case of the star professional footballer let down by a bad choice of best friend, who can so easily become a leech on him. Think of the role played by Jimmy "Two-Bellies" in the drink-related downfall of genuinely gifted flawed legend Paul Gascoigne - an ill-advised best friend who Gascoigne could not bear to lose on becoming famous and who provided embarrassment at best, and career-destroying drunken benders at worst. And the film "Get Carter" is even set in Newcastle, Gascoigne's home town...

And there is also virtually the entire Rooney family, a clan of Liverpool scallies so notorious that the fragrant Coleen wanted to exclude the entire tribe from her wedding to Wayne. (a gifted footballer not known for his physical good looks: there is a certain Orc-like component to Wayne even in a good light).

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p321, 327, 361)''' - Mrs Atkinson - ''..one of the most feared Faces who had ever wielded a sharpened umbrella with malice aforethought.''

This elderly lady, as well as evoking a freelance [[Agony Aunts|Agony Aunt]], is very typical of the hordes of shrieking old ladies who would descend on professional wrestling events* every Saturday to berate, belabour and batter the participants. Eighteen stone muscle-mountains would be scared of them, as a Mrs Atkinson rushing the ring who had deliberately sharpened her umbrella to a point could really ''hurt'' if she jabbed it into the thigh or buttock. Any wrestler thrown out of the ring to land theatrically in among the seated crowd ould not want to be dropped among a group of Atkinsons, who could be relied upon to prod, poke, pinch, kick, stab and spit as he made his shaky way back to the bottom rope. Kendo Nagasaki, a legend among British pro wrestlers, who played the evil baddie role in the ring, is on record as saying he feared nothing so much as a bloodthirsty seventy-year old lady with a sharp umbrella.

* *We are talking about British pro wrestling here, generally a more cheap and cheerful spit-and-sawdust affair than the glitzy and improbable American WWF circuit. This is the sort of contest broadcast live from Dewsbury City Hall at four o'clock on a Saturday, invariably hosted by Kent Walton, while the nation waited for its football results in the 1970's. Ah, great days.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p330)''' - Mr Nutt quotes book title ''The Doors of Deception''. A play on Aldous Huxley's philosophical treatise on using psychedelic drugs to expand the senses - ''The Doors of Perception''. (This also inspired the name of a 60's psychedelic rock band fronted by Jim Morrison, of course).

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p336)''' Another troubling continuity error emerges concerning Mustrum Ridcully. In {{RM}}, the detail emerges, in the context of a conversation with his brother Hughnon the High Priest, whilst discussing life's little consolations in the face of Mrs Cake, that Hughnon is a teetotaller and cannot for religious reasons touch his brother's emergency brandy (but subsequently does anyway); he then asks Mustrum for a cigarette, and it emerges that his brother is a non-smoker with equally vehement reasons not to touch the blasted things. But here, on pages 338 and 339, after forbidding sex, smokes, strong drink and excess food to the football team, Mustrum is desperately searching his rooms for an emergency cigarette only to discover Mrs Whitlow has hidden them all, in accordance with his wishes. Far from being a non-smoker, Mustrum Ridcully now has at least three stashes of tobacco, rolling paper and cigarettes for emergencies. In the interim since {{RM}}, has Ridcully taken up the evil habit, as might be contractually expected of a senior Wizard? This is a niggling continuity point. (And has been since {{H}}, when Ridcully's pipe is mentioned on three occasions, including the detail that he uses "herbal tobacco" that smells of bonfires; perhaps it's only the regular stuff he objects to.)

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, pp360-62)''' The incident of the banana(s) flung onto the pitch. This reflects the nasty and distasteful racist streak in British football fans as recently as the 1990's, where if a team played a black player (in an overwhelmingly white side) a predominantly white crowd was likely to welcome the black player with massed "ook-ook!" monkey noises, mimed scratching of armpits and flea-picking, and the throwing onto the pitch of many, many, bananas. (One of the earliest black players to join a British team, London's West Ham, made a brave face of it by saying he'd never needed to pay for another banana ever again. West Ham, incidentally, were the preferred side of fictional TV racist Alf Garnett).

Of course a real ape would attract "ook-ook" noises, a stand full of idiots all trying to get away with the m-word in relative safety, and, in this case, a poisoned banana.

This practice has been virtually eradicated in British football (by sanctions including ensuring local greengrocers do not sell bananas to football fans on match days, refusing entry to the ground to those carrying bananas, and making the throwing of them into an ejection/arrestable offence.) But it persists in Europe, especially in Spain.

The final taboo in British football is now beginning to be addressed: up until recently it was seen as a huge joke to verbally belabour gay players as black footballers were before them. (Note the presence in this game of Bengo Macarona, a man who has led indignant ''wives'' to bring divorce actions.) In real life, footballer Justin Fashanu[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu] had it twice over: once for being black, and once for coming out as gay. Fashanu eventually committed suicide. The story is quite shocking from anybody's point of view and is by all accounts typical of the treatment of out gay men in professional sport. Incidentally, Macarona's squad number is "69" for some unfathomable reason. (Although elsewhere we are told the Seamstresses' Guld clacks number is Ankh-Morpork 69, chosen for the advertising associations, this surely must be coincidence...)

Also on page 361: Glenda Sugarbean invents what, if this were {{SM}} and the crowd were gathered for a rock concert, would be called "crowd-surfing" as she descends down from the stands to the pitch. A hazard of crowd-surfing in the mosh-pit for most women would be inadvertent or deliberate groping: Glenda is disappointed that this happens to her not even once.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p366)''' Bledlow Nobbs, a man desperately trying to deny a relationship to Nobby Nobbs of the Watch, is summed up by Trev with "Nobbsy is a clogger at heart."

A member of England's World Cup winning team of 1966 was Manchester United legend Nobby Stiles, an uncompromising defender who had lost all his teeth young, some to natural causes, and who used to disconcert opposing forwards by a toothless gummy grin before he went into tackle. Nobby Stiles was a very definite clogger of the old school.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p385)''' '''''"You think it's all over?"'''''

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p389)''' '''''"You think it's all over?"'''''

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p397)''' '''''"You think it's all over?"'''''

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p400)''' '''''"It is now!"'''''

A reference to the classic BBC commentary at the end of the World Cup Final in 1966, where at Wembley Stadium in London, England beat West Germany 4-2 with the referee unaccountably adding more and more extra time. Kenneth Wolstenholme drily says ''there are some people on the pitch... they think it's all over... it is now!'' This piece of British deadpan, where a South American or Italian commentator would have been screaming with excitement, has justly gone down in commentating glory.

As a secondary note, it is commonly believed that the English side winning the World Cup in 1966 occurred in the run-up to a general election. Eventual winner Harold Wilson, an exceedingly sharp Prime Minister more than slightly touched by Vetinari-ish deviousness, who is supposed to have later said that the feelgood factor engendered by the football match was the biggest single decider that elected him back into office. He speculated that had England ''lost'', government change would have been inevitable, for the same superficially irrelevant reason. What would a similar "feelgood factor" do for Lord Vetinari, a man not concerned with mere elections... In reality, the 1966 general election took place in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1966 March], while the World Cup took place in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_World_Cup July], and could not have affected the result.

This was borne out in 1970, where the World Cup Finals actually did coincide with the run-up to an election called by Wilson. Against all expectations, holders England crashed out at a lower stage - to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_FIFA_World_Cup#Quarter-finals West Germany] - and former Prime Minister Harold Wilson duly found himself the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1970 Leader of the Opposition].

'''kitchen maid literature'''

In Dutch, we have an expression 'kitchen maid literature' for the kind of books Glenda reads. I have not been able to ascertain if the same expression also exists in English, but if it does... Of course Glenda is a cook, not a kitchen maid, but still.

'''Juliet the WAG'''

Juliet is, of course, the Discworld's first example of what the UK press refer to as a "WAG" - the 'Wives And Girlfriends' of famous footballers (eg Victoria ('Posh') Beckham). Stereotypically, WAGS are incredibly glamourous but also incredibly vacuous, just like Juliet. The union of a famous footballer (ie Trev Likely) to a fashion model (ie Juliet) is a very typical WAG situation. Trev & Juliet are the Discworld's "Posh & Becks" (Mr & Mrs David Beckham).

[[Category:Annotations|Unseen Academicals]]

Rolande de Colline

2018-05-25T22:35:44Z

Daibhid C:

'''Sir Rolande de Colline''' was apparently [[Ankh-Morpork]]'s very first [[Ankh-Morpork Post Office|Postmaster General]], some four hundred years before the present. He has so far only featured in the Post Office yearly diary.

==Annotation==

Sir Rolande's name suggests Sir Rowland Hill ("colline" being French or Quirmian for "hill"), who was merely the Secretary to the UK Postmaster General, but was nonetheless responsible for much the same reforms in the British Royal Mail as Moist von Lipwig would oversee at the Ankh-Morpork Post Office, including the postage stamp.

[[Category:Discworld characters]]

Smork

2017-12-01T08:58:25Z

Daibhid C:

Smork is a coastal port in [[Hergen]] and is the nearest thing to its capital city. It can be located from many leagues away even in the thickest fog by the smell of the many smokehouses dedicated to creating smoked herring, Smork Smokies, sursstroming, lutefisk and other fish products in the throes of being preserved. As well as the rendering of whale-oil. Experienced sailors claim the smell is as good as a lighthouse.

==Annotations==
Consider the Swedish Chef in ''The Muppet Show''. His theme song was in parody-Swedish and always ended something like ''Smork, smork, smork!'' Wikipedia has more on Scandinavian fermented and pickled fish produce: {{wp|Surströmming|Surströmming}}

The Smork smokie shares its name with a Scottish smoked fish called an Arbroath smokie.

[[Category: Discworld geography]]

Ginnungagap

2017-07-26T21:40:53Z

Daibhid C:

A [[Dwarfish phrases|Dwarfish phrase]] used in a heated argument between [[Sulien Heddwyn]] and [[Ardent]].

From context, it may have a lot to do with ''[[tra'ka]]' - "And a Ginnungagap for those that say different!"

The Ginnungagap is viewed as a sort of Dwarfish Hell, or would be, if they believed in one; quite possibly, for a race predicated on order and its maintenance, being thrown into a place of utter chaos would be a sort of Hell. [[Ardent]], the rogue grag with a grudge and an urge to vengeance, has this fate wished on him several times: most notably by [[Albrecht Albrechtsson]] when he usurps the [[Low King]]ship in a ''coup d'état''

According to the [[History Monks]], the Ginnugagap is the gap between the end of the Discworld and the beginning of the next creation. [[Lu-Tze]] believes that the dawn of an entirely new world would be a good thing, if only there were some way of crossing the Ginnugagap before it happened.

==Annotation==
Wikipedia defines Ginnungagap as the primordial empty abyssal void in Norse mythology, the primordial Chaos from which all things began and into which all things will eventually fall. It is possible Sulien was wishing the Grags to Hell as well as describing how little he cares for their views.

It is also worth noting, from a cultural and linguistic perspective, that in the Nordic countries of the Roundworld, Norway, Sweden and Denmark, the very worst possible ''**** Off!'' is "Go to Hell!". This is still fighting talk in Denmark and the intensity of this epithet is often not completely understood in nations that draw their ultimate oaths out of scatology rather than religion. Indeed, the English subtitles of a show like ''Borgen'' fail to realise this, and English viewers watching tend to wonder why the Danish cast are nearly coming to blows over what sounds like a very mild epithet (by English standards), where frequent expletives translated as "F*** Off!" are used in much less fraught discourse or heated situations. (These exist in the Nordic languages but are mild profanities, along the lines of "Sod Off!" or "Bugger Off!" in English.).

[[Category: Discworld concepts]]

Felicity Beedle

2017-01-16T13:23:33Z

Daibhid C:

{{Character Data
|title= The Poo Lady
|photo=
|name= Miss Felicity Beedle
|race= Human
|age= Older

|occupation= Author
|appearance=

|residence= At Apple Tree Cottage, near [[Ramkin Hall]] in [[the Shires]]

|death=
|parents= Mr Beedle (Father), mother raised by goblins.
|relatives=
|children= None
|marital status= widowed

|books= {{SN}}
|cameos=
}}

'''Miss Felicity Beedle''' is the bestselling author of [[57]] books, many of which have to do with poo. She is the favorite author of [[Young Sam]].

Her mother had been found by [[goblins]] in [[Uberwald]] when she was three and was raised by them. They embraced her as one of their own -- teaching her the language, giving her a mushroom farm plot, allowed her to look after a rat farm. However, when she was eleven, humans came into the goblin cave and massacred most of them, but took the young girl and 'tutored' her -- largely by whipping her whenever she spoke the goblin tongue. She had enough sense to learn to be sufficiently normal for them to trust her in the garden, where she vaulted over the wall and escaped. Until she met Mr Beedle, some of her best memories had been of the goblin cave. As a result of this, however, she often swore in Goblin.

She became a writer -- after all, the words are out there, and it can't be too hard to put them together -- for children. Titles include:

*''[[Book:The World of Poo|The World of Poo]]''
*''The Joy of Earwax''
*''Melvin and the Enormous Boil''
*''The Wee Wee Men''
*''The War with the Snot Goblins''
*''Geoffrey and the Land of Poo''
*''The Boy Who Didn't Know How To Pick His Own Scabs''
*''The Little Duckling Who Thought He Was an Elephant'' (but not ''The Elephant Who Thought it Was a Duckling'', because that would be silly)
*''Daphne and the Nose Pickers''
*''Gaston's Enormous Problem'', which won her the Gladys H. J. Ferguson Award, for the fifth time
*''Geoffrey and the Magic Pillow Case''
*''Wee''
*''[[Elephant Road]]''

As has often been pointed out, she gets children interested in reading, even if it is reading about poo and brain-dead ducklings.

She did have a husband, although no children, but he died shortly after the marriage in the Klatchian war recounted in {{J}}. When she moved to Apple Tree House in [[the Shires]], she changed her title from 'Mrs' to 'Miss', because it tends to be more authory.

She seems to have an interest in education; she finances scholarships at the [[Quirm College for Young Ladies]] and also teaches goblins in secret to read, play music, and so forth. It has been hinted that the 'A for Apple' system is not working, as the goblins didn't know what one was before she had brought one in. It should be noted, however, that she is not teaching them to be miniature humans, but to be well-educated goblins. For example, she is improving the sanitation of the caves, and is introducing greens to help with digestion. She concentrates on the females on the basis that they are more prone to be maternal and sensible. The male goblins think that a rabbit on a stick is healthy eating taken to extremes.

The goblin girl, [[Tears of the Mushroom]], is her star pupil. Her large hands are helpful when she plays the harp. It is unknown what she would think of [[Stinky]]...

She's probably the only publishing phenomenon mentioned living on the Discworld, which seems (surprisingly) to have less of them than on our world (fill-in-names here...)

[[Category:Discworld characters]]
[[Category:Discworld publications]]

Felicity Beedle

2017-01-16T13:23:24Z

Daibhid C:

{{Character Data
|title= The Poo Lady
|photo=
|name= Miss Felicity Beedle
|race= Human
|age= Older

|occupation= Author
|appearance=

|residence= At Apple Tree Cottage, near [[Ramkin Hall]] in [[the Shires]]

|death=
|parents= Mr Beedle (Father), mother raised by goblins.
|relatives=
|children= None
|marital status= widowed

|books= {{SN}}
|cameos=
}}

'''Miss Felicity Beedle''' is the bestselling author of [[57]] books, many of which have to do with poo. She is the favorite author of [[Young Sam]].

Her mother had been found by [[goblins]] in [[Uberwald]] when she was three and was raised by them. They embraced her as one of their own -- teaching her the language, giving her a mushroom farm plot, allowed her to look after a rat farm. However, when she was eleven, humans came into the goblin cave and massacred most of them, but took the young girl and 'tutored' her -- largely by whipping her whenever she spoke the goblin tongue. She had enough sense to learn to be sufficiently normal for them to trust her in the garden, where she vaulted over the wall and escaped. Until she met Mr Beedle, some of her best memories had been of the goblin cave. As a result of this, however, she often swore in Goblin.

She became a writer -- after all, the words are out there, and it can't be too hard to put them together -- for children. Titles include:

*''[[Book:The World of Poo|The World of Poo]]''
*''The Joy of Earwax''
*''Melvin and the Enormous Boil''
*''The Wee Wee Men''
*''The War with the Snot Goblins''
*''Geoffrey and the Land of Poo''
*''The Boy Who Didn't Know How To Pick His Own Scabs''
*''The Little Duckling Who Thought He Was an Elephant'' (but not ''The Elephant Who Thought it Was a Duckling'', because that would be silly)
*''Daphne and the Nose Pickers''
*''Gaston's Enormous Problem'', which won her the Gladys H. J. Ferguson Award, for the fifth time
*''Geoffrey and the Magic Pillow Case''
*''Wee''
*''[[The Elephant Road]]''

As has often been pointed out, she gets children interested in reading, even if it is reading about poo and brain-dead ducklings.

She did have a husband, although no children, but he died shortly after the marriage in the Klatchian war recounted in {{J}}. When she moved to Apple Tree House in [[the Shires]], she changed her title from 'Mrs' to 'Miss', because it tends to be more authory.

She seems to have an interest in education; she finances scholarships at the [[Quirm College for Young Ladies]] and also teaches goblins in secret to read, play music, and so forth. It has been hinted that the 'A for Apple' system is not working, as the goblins didn't know what one was before she had brought one in. It should be noted, however, that she is not teaching them to be miniature humans, but to be well-educated goblins. For example, she is improving the sanitation of the caves, and is introducing greens to help with digestion. She concentrates on the females on the basis that they are more prone to be maternal and sensible. The male goblins think that a rabbit on a stick is healthy eating taken to extremes.

The goblin girl, [[Tears of the Mushroom]], is her star pupil. Her large hands are helpful when she plays the harp. It is unknown what she would think of [[Stinky]]...

She's probably the only publishing phenomenon mentioned living on the Discworld, which seems (surprisingly) to have less of them than on our world (fill-in-names here...)

[[Category:Discworld characters]]
[[Category:Discworld publications]]

Pride and Extreme Prejudice

2017-01-16T13:21:27Z

Daibhid C:

A novel written by Jane Gordon and dedicated to [[Sam Vimes]], which by the end of ''[[Book:Snuff|Snuff]]'' is taking Ankh-Morpork's literary world by storm. Inspired by Vimes's suggestion that she might write a novel about the relationship between criminal and policeman.

[[category: Discworld publications]]
[[category: Snuff]]

Pride and Extreme Prejudice

2017-01-16T13:20:48Z

Daibhid C: Created page with "A novel written by Jane Gordon and dedicated to Sam Vimes, which by the end of ''Snuff'' is taking Ankh-Morpork's literary world by storm. Inspired by Vimes..."

Talk:Granny Whitlow

2016-10-01T17:59:50Z

Daibhid C:

Now, why would [[Black Aliss]], the baddest, meanest, ''wickedest'' witch in the world want to call herself "Granny Whitlow"? ... --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 04:55, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
: Yeah, if there's no objections I think that could be changed. It's well established in the books that, while never exactly common, Black Aliss was far from the only witch to have a gingerbread house, and Narrative Causality being what it is, many of them probably met their end in the same way. [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 17:59, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Book:Unseen Academicals/Annotations

2016-08-28T19:52:10Z

Daibhid C:

== [[Book:Unseen Academicals|Unseen Academicals]] Annotations ==

General:-

It has been suggested that the opening pages of the book, in which Rudolf Scattering, night-watchman at the Royal Art Museum receives a nasty surprise, is a deliberate parody of Dan Brown's mystery thrillers of the ''Da Vinci Code'' genre.

[[Pedestriana]] - the plucky barefoot Goddess of Football. According to the Guardian, (edition of 30/12/09), in an article on the weird compulsion of men to collect, in this case a man with a desire to own a match programme for ''every'' game ever played by London side Tottenham Hotspur. The newspaper reproduces the front cover of the 1921 F.A. Cup Final programme, which features...guess what... a robed and barefoot Goddess of Football, the winged angel standing bare of foot atop the ball... documentary evidence, hopefully, will follow...[http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jcprogrammes.co.uk/images/1921.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.jcprogrammes.co.uk/Top_Sellers&usg=__CyDPShHA8tx7m4LNmGsFF_d1X00=&h=301&w=200&sz=57&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=Q4vZroN2lUWNFM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=77&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFA%2BCup%2Bfinal,%2B1921,%2Bprogramme%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26cr%3DcountryUK%257CcountryGB%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1]

The name ''Dimwell'' seems close to ''Millwall'', area and football club in London noted for the belligerence of their supporters. House chant:
''Nobody loves us. And we don't care!'' Once combined an away visit to Manchester City with looting jeweller's shops on Wilmslow Road whilst the police were marching them to the ground. Two thousand fans overwhelmed three coppers and in the subsequent Shove, managed to gut a jewellers. See here for discussion:- [http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=121060]

Dimwell, like Millwall for London, is a dockside area that must provide most of Ankh-Morpork's stevedores, dockers and longshoremen. In fact: one of Andy Shanks' associates shares out the bounty at one point - of loose goods purloined while working a casual shift at the docks, unloading an incoming ship.

There are a fair number of "Lord of the Rings" references in "Unseen Academicals." Is [[micromail]] (see reference in article for alternative in sci-fi/fantasy) a reference to Frodo's mithril shirt? A metal called "moonsilver" is cited by Pepe as being a major component of micromail - "moonsilver" is a translation of the elvish "mithril".

A recurring theme throughout the book is Mr Nutt's search for ''worth''. This leads him to many uncomfortable, even dangerous, places, and involves mental and emotional anguish, at one point a near-Death experience.

Later in the book, he has the Margolotta-guided insight that the worth he seeks is not a property of deeds or created things, but an ongoing process of creation.

This echoes the quest of the narrator of Robert M. Pirsig's work of popular philosophy, '''''Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance''''', who undergoes similar travails in search of elusive ''quality'' only to realise it isn't so much a ''thing'' as an ongoing ''process''. {{SM}} apart, there are no motorbikes on the Discworld. Pirsig's character grounds himself via looking after his motorcycle - but Mr Nutt is an accomplished amateur blacksmith who succeeds in re-shoeing the most difficult horse on the Quirm Flyer (horses are as near as the Disc gets, in general?)

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.11)''' '''''Speaking of Glenda's teddy bear, Mr. Wobble. "Traditionally, in the lexicon of pathos, such a bear should have only one eye, but as the result of a childhood error in Glenda's sewing, he has three, and is more enlightened than the average bear."'''''

The picnic basket-stealing cartoon character, Yogi Bear, is frequently described as "smarter than the average bear." It is also a reference to "opening one's third eye", a feature of several spiritual traditions, usually having to do with gaining insight into the workings of the universe.

'''(Corgi paperback, UK, p28)''' '''''Hunting the Megapode''''' The Roundworld equivalent, {{wp|Wren_Day|The Hunting of the Wrens}}, is forgotten almost as totally as the Discworld version. The {{wp|Megapode|megapode}} is a real bird, whose name appropriately enough means "Bigfoot". The Megapode Hunt may also refer to the Oxford tradition of Hunting the Mallard, as suggested in The Culture of Discworld.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p27)''' '''''"in most cases the minutes could be written beforehand"''''' Ponder Stibbons' technique for creating minutes of Faculty meetings is, in purpose and execution, identical to standard British Civil Service policy. (As described in the great satire of government life, '''Yes, Prime Minister''', in which Sir Humphrey Appleby is an adept at predicting in advance how a meeting will work out and can quite safely dictate the minutes in advance.)

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p36)''' '''''"No one could have been neutral when the Dark War had engulfed Far Überwald"'''''. A sideways reference to Tolkien's {{wp|Middle-earth|Middle-earth}}, perhaps, especially in the light of Mr Nutt's [[Orcs|species]] and their perceived role in the Dark War of antiquity. '''''"Alas, when the time came to write down their story, his people hadn't even got a pencil"'''''. Unlike more favoured races who had time and liberty to craft entire ''Red Books of Westmarch'' to get their side of the story out first... the Dark War is referred to on page 58 by Vetinari and on page 60 by Ridcully, where Vetinari likens the playing pieces on the Thud board to the Dark Hordes, in their lack of free will and their having been crafted for a single purpose - to fight. Ridcully reflects on what "the monsters" had been bred to do, and wonders what became of the thousands upon thousands of ''them'' who were bred to fight. Also, re-referencing Middle-earth, Treebeard speculates that Saruman had crossbred Orcs and Men, which he calls "a black evil", to create the {{wp|Uruk-hai|Uruk-hai}}, perfect fighting machines to fight in a war that engulfs a large area of land... Vetinari himself notes that it wasn't Igoring goblins that produced orcs, but using humans, in whom the natural capacity for violence and evil is so much greater. There's also a slight resonance with the original Tolkien orcs which were created when (Middle-earthen) elves were betrayed and corrupted. In neither case are they natural creatures - they have been twisted into these shapes through evil intent. In the Jackson film version of the LOTR, they are even ''more'' "bred": the Uruk-hai are dug from the ground in a grotesque birthing sequence. There is a reference to the spawning of Orcs from the ground earlier in the book, where Nutt is contemplating the tallow vats, permanently bubbling and seething, (as per the film) as a place where he finds himself feeling safe and peaceful in an odd and nursery-like way. ''People in the streets had jeered to him that he'd been made in a vat. Although Brother Oats had told him that this was silly, the gently bubbling tallow had called to him. He felt at peace here.'' ('''p33''')

It is also worth noting that the phrase '''''"No one could have been neutral..."''''' has associations when one ponders the evolution of the fantasy fiction novel. J.R.R. Tolkien's master work has a rather simplistic two-dimensional ''"you are either Good or Evil and that's all there is to it.''" feel about the morality and the motivation of characters. As Tolkien's Middle Earth was heavily influenced by Tolkien's Christianity, and the notion that all that is Good comes of faith in and duty to God, while all that is Evil comes of rejection of God and joining in the Fall, this dichotomy excludes a Third Way.

The Third Way is introduced by fantasy writer Michael Moorcock, who thought about the mechanics involved, and came up with a moral picture drawn as much from science as from mysticism. Moorcock, drawing his cue from the scientific laws of thermodynamics, insisted the primal struggle in the Multiverse was not between Good and Evil but between the opposed forces of Law and Chaos. After making that primal alignment, a character was free to make a secondary alignment with Good, Evil or the third state - '''''Neutral''''' - as he or she pleased.

Being of the Law does not necessarily mean you are Good - consider the [[Auditors]] - and being of Chaos does not necessarily mean you are Evil. Consider Ronnie [[Soak]].

Moorcock's system offers so much choice and scope for delineating more complex three-dimensional characters that [[Dungeons and Dragons]] creator Gary Gygax adopted it wholesale. But here, in the Discworld, we are being explicitly told it is not an option - '''''"No one could have been Neutral when the Dark War had engulfed Far Überwald"''''' The Dark War takes its referents, therefore, from Tolkien and not Moorcock/Gygax.

('''''More Here:- [[http://wiki.lspace.org/index.php?title=Reading_suggestions&section=32]]. Ref.''''' author Mary Gentle and book "''Grunts''". In which a captured Orc is heavily laden with chains and secured to an anvil in the hope that this renders it dormant.)

Mary Gentle, like Neil Gaiman, is the subject of a dedication of an earlier Discworld book (the [[H.P. Lovecraft Holiday Fun Club]] consisted of her and several others from the new wave of British sci-fi/fantasy, including Neil). It would seem logical then, that TP is aware of her writing and has perhaps referenced it in the Discworld.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p45)''' '''''Ridcully swayed backwards, like a man subjected to an attack by a hitherto comatose sheep'''''

In the UK House of Commons in June 1978 the Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer was Denis Healey.
He described being attacked in June 1978 by mild mannered Conservative shadow Chancellor Geoffrey Howe as ''"like being savaged by a dead sheep".''

Such an attack can be lethal if timed right. The selfsame Sir Geoffrey Howe, formerly a fawning loyalist, lost his temper in 1990 and launched a bitter and scathing speech to a packed Commons that contributed to the downfall of the previously unassailable Margaret Thatcher. Within a fortnight of Howe's attack - again likened to that of a dead sheep - she was gone, deposed as PM.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p46)''' '''''-How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless Dean'''''

Shakespeare is being paraphrased here. King Lear's furious and anguished speech of betrayal on being (apparently) rejected by an ungrateful child, despite everything he has done for her, in which he at first wishes infertility on her, and then

''If she must teem,''

''Create her child of spleen; that it may live,''

''And be a thwart disnatured torment to her!''

''Let it stamp wrinkles in her brow of youth;''

''With cadent tears fret channels in her cheeks;''

''Turn all her mother's pains and benefits''

''To laughter and contempt; that she may feel''

'''''How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is'''''

'''''To have a thankless child!''''' ''Away, away!''

from '''''King Lear''''' [http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/188900.html]

Other Shakeperian references, filtered on the Discworld through the prolific pen of the dwarf [[Hwel]], occur on '''''page 167''''', where Ridcully and Stibbons are considering the ball that goes ''gloing!'' (''There are more things in Heaven and Disc than are dreamed of in our philosophies...'').
And on '''''page 387,''''', where Glenda and Mr Nutt go to the theatre to witness a Hix-suggested production by the [[Dolly Sisters Players]], called '''''Starcrossed''''', also written by Hwel. This not only continues the ''Romeo and Juliet'' motif running through the book, it is explicitly described as ''one of the great romantic plays of the last fifty years''. In our timescale, the Bernstein/Sondheim musical '''''West Side Story''''', where the plot of ''Romeo and Juliet'' is updated to warring city street gangs, was first performed in 1957, making it 52 years old.

I don't think it's pressing things too far to suggest that the evil Dr Hix's love of amateur dramatics might be a sly dig at one CMOT Briggs...

Another piece of Python-esque British humour that can be referenced here is the classic radio comedy sketch performed by the ''Son of Cliché'' troupe (including a very young and pre-Arnold Rimmer comedian called Christopher Barrie), in which the FA Cup final of 1982 is re-written as though it were a Shakesperian play of the heroic ''Henry V'' genre being performed at London's National Theatre.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.49)''' '''''"Just speak with a little more class, eh? You don't have to sound like--"'''''

'''''"My fare, lady?"'''''

Referring to "My Fair Lady" where street flower seller Eliza Doolittle improves her cockney speech to the point where she's taken for a fine lady at an embassy ball.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p51)''' '''''"Miss Healstether found him a book on scent"'''''. Mr Nutt's early life, education and reception by his peers is reminiscent of that of the character Grenouille in Patrick Süskind's novel '''''Perfume''''', who is similarly scorned, hated, and making his way up (or at least across) from the bottom. It is also worth noting that Grenouille was raised by a priest, for at least part of his life, and was effectively chained to a Hell-like cellar apprenticeship until offered opportunity to better himself. Like Steerpike in Gormenghast, (another literary anti-hero who has a similar early life), Grenouille finally becomes a manipulative monster with a sinister power over people...

'''Football team colours''' - from Wikipedia:-

*The leader in the Giro d'Italia cycle race wears a pink jersey (''maglia rosa''); this reflects the distinctive pink-colored newsprint of the sponsoring Italian La Gazzetta dello Sport newspaper.
*The University of Iowa's Kinnick Stadium visitors' locker room is painted pink. The decor has sparked controversy, perceived by some people as suggesting sexism and homophobia.
* Palermo, a soccer team based in Palermo, Italy, traditionally wears pink home jerseys.

Palermo is also the heart of Mafia and Machismo country, in Sicily: presumably they have transcended the whole pink thing as immaterial.

The Hungarian international strip appears to be red and green with pink trim.

The Liseberg district of Gothenberg in Sweden hosts three soccer clubs. The local city colours are pink and green, which goes back to mediaeval times, but alas none of the three clubs plays in them.

One manufacturer of soccer favours markets a pink-and-green scarf, but regrettably there's no clue as to which club it is associated with.

In many cities in the North of England, in pre-Internet and pre-Sky TV days, there would be a late edition of the Saturday evening paper, carrying nothing but the final sports results of the day, and it would be printed on pink paper. (Except in Sheffield, where for some reason it was the Sporting Green). Pink and Green again...

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p52)''' '''''Miss Healstether sounded bitter. "Stand by then, because he's discovered the [[Bonk School]]."'''''
This is the Discworld equivalent of later German/Austrian philosophers such as Wittgenstein. On Roundworld, the Vienna School is also a collective name used for the emergent psychoanalysts of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, such as Freud, Jung and Adler, whose works are often taught in university philosophy departments for want of anywhere less controversial to pigeon-hole them. This leads to several amusingly entertaining associations: given Mr Nutt's later destiny as football team manager, with the more reflective, introverted and philosophical sort of squad boss such as Sven-Göran Eriksson. There are also echoes of famously philosophical players, such as the Manchester United and France star Eric Cantona, an interview with whom could easily befuddle the average back-page journalist, as Cantona was (and is) fond of peppering interviews with philosophical ''apercus''. Also, need we mention the classic Monty Python sketch where the whole of the German and Greek international football teams are made up of their nations' respective star philosophers? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiZt79UKUFQ] The one exception in the German team, who deserves mention for going along with the joke, is the then West German national football team captain Franz Beckenbauer, who appears on the field looking frustrated at the philosophical reflection and lack of football going on around him.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p53)''' '''''"They are the ones who go on about what happens if ladies don't get enough mutton, and they say cigars are--"
"That is a fallacy!"'''''

Sigmund Freud, when asked if his cigar was a phallic symbol, is supposed to have said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

A similar phallus/fallacy joke has appeared in a previous Discworld book in reference to witches' broomsticks.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p67)''' '''''"They're two teams alike in villainy."'''''

Prologue to "Romeo and Juliet" "Two households, both alike in dignity..." It could also be an example of football commentators' random (if sometimes intellectual) phrases...

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p70)''' '''''"But I'm a Face, right?"'''''. Trevor Likely's proud assertion of his status in the ranks of the Dimmers, and his being known throughout all the Boroughs, reflects British soccer hooligan counter-culture where the leaders, best fighters, and other notorious individuals in the various Firms are known as Faces. The term was also used by counter-cultural young male gangs in the 1950's and 1960's: Teddy Boys in the 50's, and Mods and Rockers in the 60's, most notorious gang members and hardest fighters were called Faces. In the latter case - 1960's scooter mods - there is even a musical about it: the Who's rock opera ''Quadrophenia'', about London Mods, has a song called ''I'm the Face''.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p73)''' ''''' 'Gentlemen' Ridcully began ...'or should I say, fellow workers by hand and brain' '''''

'Workers by hand and brain' is a key phrase in original Clause IV for the British Labour Party. This was written by Beatrice and Sidney Webb, leading members of the Fabian Society.

''To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service''

Clause IV was revised (not abolished) in 1995.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p80)'''. With regard to the makeover of Professor Hicks into the University's licensed evil wizard. In his physical description and general attitude, is there a certain sly reference creeping in to the teaching wizards of Slytherin House, in a certain J.K. Rowling's fantasies about a school of wizardry? Or, indeed, to a certain Dark Lord whose name cannot be uttered, save that it most coincidentally also begins with a "V"? And all this is in the context a of a sport which wizards must learn to love (if only to stop their cornucopia drying up and the flow of big dinners ebbing to a trickle.) A sport which most categorically must be played within agreed rules, with no magic ''at all'' being used, which involves getting a resolutely un-magical ball into a goal. Anyone for Quidditch, whoops sorry, Foot-the-Ball? Interestingly, when Ridcully is temporarily possessed by the shade of PE master Evans the Striped, it is Hix who performs a crude but effective exorcism with the knob on the end of his staff. What might Hix be able to reveal about the act of insorcism that put Evans' soul in there in the first place?

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p87)''': ''Glenda would have followed him like a homing vulture'' A reference to ex-Python Michael Palin's gritty slice of Northern working-class life, ''The Testing of Eric Olthwaite'', in which the little-known Northern English sport of racing homing vultures is discussed at great length. It is possible one of Reg Bag's prize homing vultures was called ''Glenda''.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p107)''' '''''"I just happened to be holding a knife. You are holding a knife.We hold knives. This is a kitchen."'''''

Reminiscent of "The Lion in Winter", where Queen Elanor says "Of course he has a knife, he always has a knife, we all have knives! It's 1183 and we're barbarians!"

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p113)''' '''''"Oh, Mr Trevor Likely" said Glenda, folding her arms. "Just one question: who ate all the pies?"'''''

This is a classic chant to be heard across British football grounds. Fans tend to be merciless to a player perceived as having fallen from the pinnacle of physical fitness and to have put weight on, in the form of visible fat. The full chant, aimed at the luckless fat boy, runs: ''Who ate all the pies? Who ate all the pies? '''''You''''' fat bastard, '''''you''''' fat bastard, you ate all the pies!'' (tune: '''Knees up, Mother Brown'''). Footballers thus singled out for dietary advice from the terraces have included England's idiot savant and flawed genius, Paul Gascoigne.

A charming piece of trivia. ''Who ate all the pies?'' is quite possibly the oldest known fan chant to have been continuously sung on English terraces. It was born in honour of {{wp|William_Foulke_(footballer)|William Henry "Fatty" Foulke}}, the legendary Sheffield United goalkeeper whose playing career spanned 1894-1910. Six foot two and a svelte twelve stone at the start of his career, he was an early victim of success and the extravagant professional footballer lifestyle (Edwardian style). By 1902, he was estimated to weigh twenty-five stones (350 pounds) ''and was still playing top-level football.'' His Sheffield United faithful sang it in his honour, albeit without the "you fat bastard" line. You wonder if Terry was aware of this when he wrote the character of the Ankh United goalkeeper, who is seen eating and gorging his way through the big game...

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.122)''' '''''Robert Scandal's famous poem, "Oi! To his Deaf Mistress".'''''

Refers to Andrew Marvell's "To His Coy Mistress".

Also '''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p122)''' '''''Nutt was technically an expert on love poetry throughout the ages... he had tried to discuss it with Ladyship, but she had laughed and said that it was frivolity, although quite useful as a tutorial on the art of vocabulary, scansion rhythm, and affect as a means to an end, to wit, getting a young lady to take all her clothes off.'''''

This is suspiciously reminiscent of Sigismundo Celine's reflections on romantic poetry, in guerrilla ontologist Robert Anton Wilson's '''''The historical Illuminatus: The Widow's Son'''''. In which the wunderkind Celine, imprisoned in the Bastille, passes time by reading the prison library. He decides about love poems that

''they mostly argue the case that a Certain Woman is like a certain Natural Phenomenon (sunlight, stars, birds, flowers, et c) and that the poet's heart, in response to this fact, was like another Natural Phenomenon (parched desert, wounded animal, dark cave, et c) and that there was only one natural resolution to this natural conjunction of natural phenomena. He gathered that she would have to take her clothes off.'' (p. 149 R.A.Wilson, '''''The Widow's Son''''', Lynx Books, New York, pub. 1985) For more Wilson and hints on other ways his thoughts and ideas might have filtered through Pratchett's brain and into Discworld, see Reading Suggestions).

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p.124)''' '''''[S]omeone at the Royal Art Museum had found the urn in an old storeroom, and it contained scrolls which, it said here, had the original rules of foot-the-ball laid down in the early years of the century of the Summer Weevil, a thousand years ago, when the game was played in honour of the goddess Pedestriana.'''''

As gods and religion are involved, it may be of note that a similar incident is described in the Bible, specifically in 2 Kings Ch. 22. Supposedly, a "Book of the Law" was found in the Temple, dating back centuries to Moses himself, but which had somehow been lost. As the book described rules that were in the best interests of the Temple and the priests there, scholars who aren't Biblical fundamentalists generally suspect that the ancient book (likely an early version of what we now call Deuteronomy) had been recently composed.

This being the Discworld, this book of rules apparently is ancient ''and'' has just been composed.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p135)''' '''''"Good point, well put," said Ridcully, "and I shall marshal my responses thusly." He flicked a finger and, with a smell of gooseberries and a pop, a small red globe appeared in the air over the table.'''''

Is this a magical powerpoint demonstration?

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p158)''' '''''"Dolly Sisters, right? Sounds like the Botney Street area. I'm sure of it". said Pépé ''''' This is in the crab-bucket discourse, about how people from lowly areas with big ideas are beaten back into thinking small by their peers.

Satirical magazine '''''Private Eye''''' once revealed a secret about BBC Arts supremo, talking head on the gentler, more refined, things in life, and broadcasting giant, Alan Yentob. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Yentob] Although Yentob adamantly denies it, the Eye revealed that he was born in lowly circumstances in East London as Alan ''Botney'', and reversed his surname for professional reasons to make it look more interesting and artsy. Yentob/Botney has refrained, however, from suing the Eye for libel over this assertion. Is this a hidden reason for Terry's naming a street in Lobbin Clout after him?

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p167)''' '''''"You gave the ball a mighty kick, Mister Stibbons, and yet you are, by your own admission, a wet and a weed."'''''
Molesworth, a schoolboy and the narrating character in a series of books by Geoffrey Willans, would consistently refer to his brother, Molesworth 2, as "a wet and a weed."

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p198)''' '''''"Owlspring-Tips diagram"'''''

The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertzsprung%E2%80%93Russell_diagram Herzsprung-Russell diagram] is used in astronomy to plot the absolute magnitude of stars against their spectral class.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p201)''' '''''"That's right, of course" said the former Dean. "Your father was a butcher, as I recall".'''''
Later on, there is explicit mention of the large, strong, hands Ridcully inherited from his butcher father.
There is a continuity problem here: when Ridcully first enters the series in {{MP}}, it is explicitly said that he became a seventh-level mage at a phenomenally young age, then retired from active Wizarding to return home and run the extensive family estates. Certainly, his demeanour and behaviour is that of the rumbustious country squire who drinks port by the pint and considers slaughtering the wildlife to be a perk of social rank. Such a man would not concern himself with butchering, save in the rough-and-ready method utilised just after a successful hunt. Similarly, a butcher would not normally be expected to kill his animals - in normal circumstances, they arrive freshly killed by somebody else. And to be able to afford large country estates, you would surely need be a ''very successful'' butcher? Something of a problem here, I fear. On '''page 41''', Ridcully's grandfather is first mentioned as a religiously-inclined prizefighter who made musical boxes for a living and who scored two goals against Dimwell ''in one match''. This can be excused and incorporated into the canon without breaking continuity with what we already know about Ridcully - everybody gets two grandfathers, after all. But the wiggle room disappears when his father is described as a city-based butcher and not a country squire.... It is possible that the land comes from his mother's side of the family. Being the offspring of a frowned-upon marriage (highborn lady, lowborn butcher) may well explain some of Ridcully's stubborn attitude.

Also, the book suggests Ridcully was brought up in Ankh-Morpork and his butcher father took him to football matches. This really doesn't square with what we know about the Ridcully brothers from previous books in the series.

However, it is mentioned that not all those experiences were true ones. Ponder, for instance, remembers being taken to see the football by his father despite being raised by an aunt.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p200)''' '''''"You are after the Hat" said Ridcully, flatly.'''''

The rivalry between Mustrum and, er, Henry, crystallises in Henry's offer that the two magical Universities should fight it out on the field of sport, the stake being the [[Archchancellor's Hat]] in which reposes the soul of Wizardry and the essence of many thousands of Archchancellors past. This is made clear in an earlier dialogue on pp197-199.

There is a continuity problem here with events in {{S}}. Having got the Hat out of Ankh-Morpork over to Klatch and therefore temporarily out of reach of the Sourcerer, Rincewind and Conina are imprisoned by the wicked vizier Abrim, who takes the Hat for his own. Abrim then builds a tower and challenges Ankh-Morpork, but owing to intervention by the Luggage, is distracted for just long enough for concentrated magic to blow him, the tower, and most crucially the Hat, into tiny tiny smithereens. After Abrim's destruction, the Hat is never heard of again - it is presumed destroyed, atomized by greater forces. It is certainly not used again as a plot device in {{S}}, and is in the fullness replaced by Ridcully's wilderness-survival Hat: a symbol of a different University with different priorities. Yet on pp225-227, Vetinari discusses the Hat as if it is still in physical existence, none the worse for its trip to Klatch and its last known wearing on the head of a failed wizard who was blasted into his component atoms.

Unless Henry and Mustrum are playing for a purely symbolic Hat (which like the Ashes never leaves London, however often Australia beat England), or the original Hat was included in Coin's promise to the Librarian to restore everything to what it was, as good as old (but it is never mentioned again in the canon, until now?), then it's hard to see anything other than a continuity glitch here.

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p202)''' '''''Ponder Stibbons says "I'm even the Camerlengo, which means that if you drop dead, Archchancellor, from any cause other than legitimate succession under the Dead Man's Pointy Shoes tradition, I run this place until a successor is elected which, given the nature of wizardry, will mean a job for life."'''''

The [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03217a.htm Camerlengo](Italian for "chamberlain) of the Roman Catholic Church is, among other duties, the person in charge of the Vatican between the death of one pope and the election of the next. His job is not normally as exciting as Dan Brown describes it in "Angels and Demons."

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p203)''' '''''"Most of them were old enough to recall at least two pitched battles among factions of wizards, the worst of which had only been brought to a conclusion by Rincewind, wielding a half-brick in a sock..."'''''

As described at the end of ''"Sourcery."''

'''(Harper Collins hardback, US, p224)''' '''''Glenda says "You're giving them Avec. Nearly every dish has got Avec in it, but stuff with Avec in the name is an acquired taste."'''''

"Avec" is the French (and probably restaurant Quirmian) word for "with."

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p251)''' '''''"What is your favourite spoon?"'''''

Pepe has just informed Glenda that a lot of people want to ask Juliet some very important questions, including this one.

The satirical magazine '''''Private Eye''''' carries a "Me and My Spoon" column in every edition, in which a celebrity is quizzed minutely about their favourite spoon. This column is meant as a joke at the expense of those journalists - not always on gossip/trivia magazines of the [[Bu-Bubble]] type - who persist in asking the most vacuous, trivial, and lazy questions of the people they are interviewing. As a sort of foreshadowing of this, Vetinari is seen to be playing with a spoon during the dinner at the University, thoughtfully studying it and the way the varying concavity and convexity of it alters his reflection.

Interestingly, a place-name with an unambiguously Irish ring to it - ''Cladh'' - is introduced here. Until now - with the possible exception of a couple of minor character names - there has not been a hint of anywhere Ireland-like on the Disc, although there is a Wales-like country and a suspiciously Caledonian aura to the NacMac Feegle. Is this a portent for the future? ''Cladh", pronounced "Cla(h)'', may derive from an Irish Gaelic root for "circle" or "ring".

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p272-273)'''
The crowd gathering to witness Nutt in his travail, chained to a bench and fully aware of his Orc-hood for the first time. The named speakers are a Butcher and a Baker. Who are looking upon Nutt, a Candle(stick)maker....

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p282)''' '''''"Is this going to be like the Moving Pictures?"'''''

Given that Dr Hix, via a handy Omniscope, is proposing to replay part of the Battle of '''Orc's Deep''', then the answer may be "yes". This could well be a back handed tribute to the film adaptation of ''{{wp|The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Two_Towers|The Two Towers}}'', the second in the film trilogy of ''The Lord Of The Rings'' dealing with the battle of Helm's Deep, and introducing Orcs as a potent fighting force. The fact Glenda also remembers the Moving Pictures is significant, as she can be no older than twenty. Doubly interesting, in a city where a convenient group amnesia appears to settle at the end of every fad or fancy... Another (minor) continuity slip occurs here: Hix, acknowledging Glenda's reference to the Moving Pictures, refers to "popcorn", a word unknown on the Disc. Which does, however, have "banged grains" (although - continuity slip within continuity slip! - [[Hwel]] briefly mentions "popcorn" in one of his plays during {{WS}}). The second referent is to the Roundworld battle of Rorke's Drift, but this has already been parodied in an orc-related context by fantasy writer Mary Gentle (in her short story "The Battle of Orc's Drift", the Orcs are surprised and stitched up a treat by an enemy with lots of similarity to the Feegle).

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p314)''' '''''"Was it a football team of Orcs?"''''' By his own admission, Terry Pratchett was once heavily involved in fantasy RPG gaming of the "Dungeons and Dragons" variety. A spin-off from D&D, marketed by the British fantasy gaming and world domination corporation Games Workshop, was called '''''Blood Bowl [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Bowl]'''''. In this, a board game/RPG loosely based on American Football, teams drawn from the various fantasy races played each other, utilising their traditional cultural and racial strengths and weaknesses in a sport combining grace, athleticism, and sadistic brutality. It is difficult to believe TP is not aware of this game, nor of the fact that Orcs, being nearest in temperament and body shape to American footballers, had an inbuilt advantage. It may also be a reference to another game by Games Workshop called Warhammer 40,000; the orcs in this series (here called Orks) are often said to have been based on 'English football hooligans' and serve as a comedy relief race in the setting. It is notable that they would be very enthusiastic about the more brutal form of Ankh-Morpork foot-the-ball.

"Orc's Deep" may also have a second level of allusion, to the famous Roundworld battle of Rorke's Drift. However, ''"The Battle of Orc's Drift"'' has already been done by fantasy writer Mary Gentle. (see above) In her story, the Orcs encounter a faerie race not unlike the Feegle...
and in any case, Terry Pratchett has referenced, although not expanded on, a famous Discworld battle at ''Lawke's Drain'', which may have been in Howondaland.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p320)''' "Fartmeister" Carter has just been badly beaten up by the established villain Andy and his gang, at least in part to send an unmistakable message to Trev Likely. This echoes a scene in the classic gangster film '''''Get Carter''''', in which the local mob, inconvenienced by London gangster Carter's attempts to disrupt them, go gunning for him. They miss Carter (Michael Caine), but console themselves by beating his friend and local ally to a bloody pulp. In this case - Carter has been well and truly got.

"Fartmeister" echoes the case of the star professional footballer let down by a bad choice of best friend, who can so easily become a leech on him. Think of the role played by Jimmy "Two-Bellies" in the drink-related downfall of genuinely gifted flawed legend Paul Gascoigne - an ill-advised best friend who Gascoigne could not bear to lose on becoming famous and who provided embarrassment at best, and career-destroying drunken benders at worst. And the film "Get Carter" is even set in Newcastle, Gascoigne's home town...

And there is also virtually the entire Rooney family, a clan of Liverpool scallies so notorious that the fragrant Coleen wanted to exclude the entire tribe from her wedding to Wayne. (a gifted footballer not known for his physical good looks: there is a certain Orc-like component to Wayne even in a good light).

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p321, 327, 361)''' - Mrs Atkinson - ''..one of the most feared Faces who had ever wielded a sharpened umbrella with malice aforethought.''

This elderly lady, as well as evoking a freelance [[Agony Aunts|Agony Aunt]], is very typical of the hordes of shrieking old ladies who would descend on professional wrestling events* every Saturday to berate, belabour and batter the participants. Eighteen stone muscle-mountains would be scared of them, as a Mrs Atkinson rushing the ring who had deliberately sharpened her umbrella to a point could really ''hurt'' if she jabbed it into the thigh or buttock. Any wrestler thrown out of the ring to land theatrically in among the seated crowd ould not want to be dropped among a group of Atkinsons, who could be relied upon to prod, poke, pinch, kick, stab and spit as he made his shaky way back to the bottom rope. Kendo Nagasaki, a legend among British pro wrestlers, who played the evil baddie role in the ring, is on record as saying he feared nothing so much as a bloodthirsty seventy-year old lady with a sharp umbrella.

* *We are talking about British pro wrestling here, generally a more cheap and cheerful spit-and-sawdust affair than the glitzy and improbable American WWF circuit. This is the sort of contest broadcast live from Dewsbury City Hall at four o'clock on a Saturday, invariably hosted by Kent Walton, while the nation waited for its football results in the 1970's. Ah, great days.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p330)''' - Mr Nutt quotes book title ''The Doors of Deception''. A play on Aldous Huxley's philosophical treatise on using psychedelic drugs to expand the senses - ''The Doors of Perception''. (This also inspired the name of a 60's psychedelic rock band fronted by Jim Morrison, of course).

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p336)''' Another troubling continuity error emerges concerning Mustrum Ridcully. In {{RM}}, the detail emerges, in the context of a conversation with his brother Hughnon the High Priest, whilst discussing life's little consolations in the face of Mrs Cake, that Hughnon is a teetotaller and cannot for religious reasons touch his brother's emergency brandy (but subsequently does anyway); he then asks Mustrum for a cigarette, and it emerges that his brother is a non-smoker with equally vehement reasons not to touch the blasted things. But here, on pages 338 and 339, after forbidding sex, smokes, strong drink and excess food to the football team, Mustrum is desperately searching his rooms for an emergency cigarette only to discover Mrs Whitlow has hidden them all, in accordance with his wishes. Far from being a non-smoker, Mustrum Ridcully now has at least three stashes of tobacco, rolling paper and cigarettes for emergencies. In the interim since {{RM}}, has Ridcully taken up the evil habit, as might be contractually expected of a senior Wizard? This is a niggling continuity point. (And has been since {{H}}, when Ridcully's pipe is mentioned on three occasions, including the detail that he uses "herbal tobacco" that smells of bonfires; perhaps it's only the regular stuff he objects to.)

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, pp360-62)''' The incident of the banana(s) flung onto the pitch. This reflects the nasty and distasteful racist streak in British football fans as recently as the 1990's, where if a team played a black player (in an overwhelmingly white side) a predominantly white crowd was likely to welcome the black player with massed "ook-ook!" monkey noises, mimed scratching of armpits and flea-picking, and the throwing onto the pitch of many, many, bananas. (One of the earliest black players to join a British team, London's West Ham, made a brave face of it by saying he'd never needed to pay for another banana ever again. West Ham, incidentally, were the preferred side of fictional TV racist Alf Garnett).

Of course a real ape would attract "ook-ook" noises, a stand full of idiots all trying to get away with the m-word in relative safety, and, in this case, a poisoned banana.

This practice has been virtually eradicated in British football (by sanctions including ensuring local greengrocers do not sell bananas to football fans on match days, refusing entry to the ground to those carrying bananas, and making the throwing of them into an ejection/arrestable offence.) But it persists in Europe, especially in Spain.

The final taboo in British football is now beginning to be addressed: up until recently it was seen as a huge joke to verbally belabour gay players as black footballers were before them. (Note the presence in this game of Bengo Macarona, a man who has led indignant ''wives'' to bring divorce actions.) In real life, footballer Justin Fashanu[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu] had it twice over: once for being black, and once for coming out as gay. Fashanu eventually committed suicide. The story is quite shocking from anybody's point of view and is by all accounts typical of the treatment of out gay men in professional sport. Incidentally, Macarona's squad number is "69" for some unfathomable reason. (Although elsewhere we are told the Seamstresses' Guld clacks number is Ankh-Morpork 69, chosen for the advertising associations, this surely must be coincidence...)

Also on page 361: Glenda Sugarbean invents what, if this were {{SM}} and the crowd were gathered for a rock concert, would be called "crowd-surfing" as she descends down from the stands to the pitch. A hazard of crowd-surfing in the mosh-pit for most women would be inadvertent or deliberate groping: Glenda is disappointed that this happens to her not even once.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p366)''' Bledlow Nobbs, a man desperately trying to deny a relationship to Nobby Nobbs of the Watch, is summed up by Trev with "Nobbsy is a clogger at heart."

A member of England's World Cup winning team of 1966 was Manchester United legend Nobby Stiles, an uncompromising defender who had lost all his teeth young, some to natural causes, and who used to disconcert opposing forwards by a toothless gummy grin before he went into tackle. Nobby Stiles was a very definite clogger of the old school.

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p385)''' '''''"You think it's all over?"'''''

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p389)''' '''''"You think it's all over?"'''''

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p397)''' '''''"You think it's all over?"'''''

'''(Doubleday hardback, UK, p400)''' '''''"It is now!"'''''

A reference to the classic BBC commentary at the end of the World Cup Final in 1966, where at Wembley Stadium in London, England beat West Germany 4-2 with the referee unaccountably adding more and more extra time. Kenneth Wolstenholme drily says ''there are some people on the pitch... they think it's all over... it is now!'' This piece of British deadpan, where a South American or Italian commentator would have been screaming with excitement, has justly gone down in commentating glory.

As a secondary note, it is commonly believed that the English side winning the World Cup in 1966 occurred in the run-up to a general election. Eventual winner Harold Wilson, an exceedingly sharp Prime Minister more than slightly touched by Vetinari-ish deviousness, who is supposed to have later said that the feelgood factor engendered by the football match was the biggest single decider that elected him back into office. He speculated that had England ''lost'', government change would have been inevitable, for the same superficially irrelevant reason. What would a similar "feelgood factor" do for Lord Vetinari, a man not concerned with mere elections... In reality, the 1966 general election took place in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1966 March], while the World Cup took place in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_World_Cup July], and could not have affected the result.

This was borne out in 1970, where the World Cup Finals actually did coincide with the run-up to an election called by Wilson. Against all expectations, holders England crashed out at a lower stage - to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_FIFA_World_Cup#Quarter-finals West Germany] - and former Prime Minister Harold Wilson duly found himself the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1970 Leader of the Opposition].

'''kitchen maid literature'''

In Dutch, we have an expression 'kitchen maid literature' for the kind of books Glenda reads. I have not been able to ascertain if the same expression also exists in English, but if it does... Of course Glenda is a cook, not a kitchen maid, but still.

'''Juliet the WAG'''

Juliet is, of course, the Discworld's first example of what the UK press refer to as a "WAG" - the 'Wives And Girlfriends' of famous footballers (eg Victoria ('Posh') Beckham). Stereotypically, WAGS are incredibly glamourous but also incredibly vacuous, just like Juliet. The union of a famous footballer (ie Trev Likely) to a fashion model (ie Juliet) is a very typical WAG situation. Trev & Juliet are the Discworld's "Posh & Becks" (Mr & Mrs David Beckham).

[[Category:Annotations|Unseen Academicals]]

Talk:Diamond King

2016-07-29T21:28:27Z

Daibhid C:

The [[Trolls]] article does say a Diamond Troll is "made entirely of diamond", but I wonder if that's supported. Other trolls aren't pure anything. By their names, Ruby, Pyrites and Corundum are externally non-silicaceous and Coalface must carry some carbon. I suspect the diamond exterior protects the usual
doped-silicon brain and mineral metabolism. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 14:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

After all, all trolls are capable of naturally making some diamond as part of their biology -all trolls have diamond teeth - so it isn't a great leap from here to the idea of a troll, who doesn't need to belong to a different carbon-based species, whose genes allow it to make more diamond than most. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 20:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

:The troll king is special. Why wouldn't he be made entirely out of diamond? --[[User:Sanity|Sanity]] 21:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You mean a different species again? I can just imagine crystalline carbon brains, but I can't see the supporting systems. Anyway, I thought Mr. Shine was still a troll. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

It is metamorphorical rock, it doesn't have to have the same properties as the equivalent real rock. For example, I assume that neither Coalface nor Chalky crumble under light pressure. They are not actually the rock that they appear to be made of. --[[User:Confusion|Confusion]] ([[User talk:Confusion|talk]]) 06:29, 2 January 2014 (GMT)

Regarding the question of more than one diamond troll, I'm not sure there is. Mr Shine is described, as mentioned above, as (appearing as) pure diamond. Vimes can't even look directly at him because of the light-refraction. Mr Thunderbolt, on the other hand, is described as just looking like a troll until you notice the sparkle. He's "diamond through and through", but he's not ''pure'' diamond. So I think there's only one "pure" diamond troll, and he's the king, but other trolls in the "royal family" have veins of diamond within their rock. [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 21:27, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Diamond King

2016-07-29T21:27:29Z

Daibhid C:

The [[Trolls]] article does say a Diamond Troll is "made entirely of diamond", but I wonder if that's supported. Other trolls aren't pure anything. By their names, Ruby, Pyrites and Corundum are externally non-silicaceous and Coalface must carry some carbon. I suspect the diamond exterior protects the usual
doped-silicon brain and mineral metabolism. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 14:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

After all, all trolls are capable of naturally making some diamond as part of their biology -all trolls have diamond teeth - so it isn't a great leap from here to the idea of a troll, who doesn't need to belong to a different carbon-based species, whose genes allow it to make more diamond than most. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 20:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

:The troll king is special. Why wouldn't he be made entirely out of diamond? --[[User:Sanity|Sanity]] 21:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You mean a different species again? I can just imagine crystalline carbon brains, but I can't see the supporting systems. Anyway, I thought Mr. Shine was still a troll. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

It is metamorphorical rock, it doesn't have to have the same properties as the equivalent real rock. For example, I assume that neither Coalface nor Chalky crumble under light pressure. They are not actually the rock that they appear to be made of. --[[User:Confusion|Confusion]] ([[User talk:Confusion|talk]]) 06:29, 2 January 2014 (GMT)

Regarding the question of more than one diamond troll, I'm not sure there is. Mr Shine is described, as mentioned above, as (appearing as) pure diamond. Vimes can't even look directly at him. Mr Thunderbolt, on the other hand, is described as just looking like a troll until you notice the sparkle. He's "diamond through and through", but he's not ''pure'' diamond. So I think there's only one "pure" diamond troll, and he's the king, but other trolls in the "royal family" have veins of diamond within their rock. [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 21:27, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Thunderbolt

2016-07-29T21:13:29Z

Daibhid C:

The only incorruptibly honest lawyer on the [[Discworld]]. In fact the only lawyer of his [[Trolls|species]] on the Discworld.

The mind may need a little preparation for the term "Troll lawyer". Vampires, obviously; Dwarfs are argumentative and much inclined to strict rules; there is a well-known [[Slant|Zombie]], but a Troll with an argument more sophisticated than a club? Well, '''Mr Thunderbolt''' is not the average Troll. He's the nephew of the [[Diamond King]] and diamond himself. He has articled at [[Morecombe, Slant and Honeyplace]] and is even accredited in the court of the Low King.

While his uncle is pure diamond, Mr Thunderbolt has a mere sparkle to his rock to indicate that he is "diamond through and through", and may therefore be looked at directly without risk of blindness.

Being diamond prevents him from telling lies, a seemingly fatal disadvantage in his profession, but he's apparently clever enough to overcome even this. He is so reliably honest that he is trusted to represent both parties in the partnership of [[Harry King]] and [[Dick Simnel]].

[[Category:Discworld characters]]
[[Category:Troll characters]]

Soul Cake Tuesday

2016-07-29T21:11:01Z

Daibhid C:

First mentioned as Soul Cake Friday in {{TDSOTS}}, and scheduled as Soul Cake Thursday in {{G!G!}} , this traditional holiday later became firmly fixed on a Tuesday, presumably for convenience. The Soul Cake Days come after the last half-moon in Sektober. ({{DC}})

Traditional pastimes include rolling eggs down hills ({{LL}}), face painting, and trickle-treating ({{RM}}).

The day is anthropomorphised (or possibly avimorphised) in the person of a [[Soul Cake Duck]], which is said to lay chocolate eggs. It is said that [[Susan Sto Helit]] has made its acquaintance. Inconveniently for
the Duck, Soul Cake Tuesday is also the start of the duck-hunting season. ({{DC}})

==Annotations==

A soul cake is a small, round cake made for All Souls' Day in [[Roundworld]] (the day after All Saint's Day, and therefore two days after the trick-or-treating festival of Halloween), to be given to children and the poor, and presumably the same breadstuff is baked for Soul Cake Tuesday. In Roundworld, each cake eaten frees a soul from Purgatory - and therefore it is certainly one's Christian duty to consume as many as possible. There is an association here with the Welsh custom of "sin-eating", where at the wake, a volunteer will eat the plate of food-fancies left on the coffin - thus transferring the deceased's burden of sin and guilt and ensuring them free passage in the Afterlife.

The 'Soul Cake Duck' may be reminiscent of the Easter Bunny, another animal which symbolises a holiday and is totally unrelated to the foodstuff eaten on that day - although a duck does lay eggs (which the Easter Bunny is associated with), these are not used in soul cakes, at least in Roundworld.

Easter changes dates every year, although this similarity may be accidental.

[[Category:Discworld concepts]]
[[de:Seelenkuchendienstag]]

Book:Nanny Ogg's Cookbook

2016-06-30T20:04:31Z

Daibhid C: /* Annotation, or at least a puzzling anachronism */

[[File:Cover Nanny Oggs Cookbook.jpg|240px|right|thumb]]

==Blurb==
''They say that the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, which just goes to show they're as confused about anatomy as they gen'rally are about everything else, unless they're talking about instructions on how to stab them. Anyway, we do not have a perfect world and it is foresight and useful for a young woman to become proficient in those arts which will keep a weak-willed man from straying. Learning to cook is also useful.''

[[Nanny Ogg]], one of Discworld's most famous [[Witches magic|witches]], is passing on some of her huge collection of tasty and above all interesting recipes, since everyone else is doing it. But in addition to the delights of the [[Strawberry Wobbler]] and Nobby's Mum's [[Distressed Pudding]], Mrs Ogg imparts her thoughts on life, death, etiquette ('If you go to other people's funerals they'll be sure to come to yours'), courtship, children and weddings, all in a refined style that should not offend the most delicate of sensibilities. Well, not much.

Most of the recipes have been tried out on people who are still alive.

Nanny's earlier work, [[The Joye of Snacks]] (mentioned in {{M!!!}}), which (as it's parodic title would imply) contains recipes that help enhance eroticism, has apparently not yet crossed over into [[Roundworld]], unless it's become a chapter in this book? The simple answer to this, as Nanny is at pains to point out repeatedly, is that she ''simply isn't allowed to'' and that having to compromise her artistic vision has left her somewhat miffed.

The Cookbook has several strands, all of which parody aspects of Roundworld publishing as well as specific literary genres. (Oh, and the recipes also work: Mrs Colon's Genyooin Klatchian Curry is a plateful of culinary nostalgia, for those who ever ate [http://www.ciao.co.uk/Vesta_Beef_Curry__Review_5711756 Vesta packet curry] in the 1970's).

It opens with an exchange of memos between the publisher [[Goatberger|JHC Goatberger]] and his managing editor ("Overseer") Mr. [[Thomas Cropper|Cropper]], in which we learn that the print house of Goatberger's is in dire straits following a series of ill-judged editions which have left it with substantial liabilities (and possible legal actions) rather than the much-hoped for profits.

At this point, salvation arrives in the form of a manuscript from the Lancre Witch which is meant to be a follow-up to her best-seller [[The Joye of Snacks]]. This deals largely with etiquette, comportment and good manners, and indeed a goodly amount of this material makes its way into the final book.

Goatberger and Cropper ponder the ethics of publishing a book clearly plagiarised from at least twelve sources. Then they decide it can be considered "research" and publish anyway.

The book takes the form of severely abridged recipes purporting to be from the Joye of Snackes, with, as its author complains, "all the best ingredients left out". The presentation is reminiscent of one of those charity compilations which hit the bookshops like a rash just before Christmas, in which vaguely famous or at best notorious people are asked to submit their favourite cat/dog/recipe, et c, ''for charidee''. This would explain why such luminaries as [[Havelock Vetinari]], [[Patrician]], and Lady [[Sybil Ramkin|Sybil Vimes]] have lent their time to support the book. Although on what promise or premise from Goatberger is not clear, as we know the charity being supported is the Keep Goatberger Solvent Benevolent Fund. (Then again, we have no idea how much of the money from those Christmas charity compilations goes on "publishers' expenses" before the charity sees a penny).

Other contributions, such as those from Mrs [[Fred Colon ]] and [[Maisie Nobbs]] have a more personal feel to them, as though Nanny Ogg has been out and done the fieldwork personally.

The sections on good manners and etiquette are an outrageous parody of those books of the "Edwardian Country Gentlewoman" genre, for which there was a vogue some years ago.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Holden] (American readers: think Emily Post).

==Characters==

===Main characters===
*[[Nanny Ogg]]

===Cameo Appearances===
*[[Vetinari]]
*[[Maisie Nobbs]]
*[[Fred Colon]]
* King [[Verence II]] of [[Lancre]]
*[[Bergholt Stuttley Johnson|"Bloody Stupid" Johnson]]

==Annotation, or at least a puzzling anachronism==
On page 140, there is a short entry on ''The Significance of Stamps'', in which Nanny Ogg discusses the hidden language connected with where, exactly, the stamp is placed on the envelope (top-right, "the answer to your question is "yes""; top left, "don't waste your time, boy", dead-centre, "you've stamped it right over the address so it ends up at the wrong house", et c. Nanny tells us that this goes back a long way.

Yet on the Disc, stamps as we know them are the fairly recent invention of [[Moist von Lipwig]] and [[Stanley Howler]]? So how can this be explained, unless Lancre, uniquely, has been using them locally for a long time?

(Or could Nanny, inspired by seeing an Ankh-Morpork stamp, just have made it all up - well, all time-honoured traditions have to begin somewhere - to fill in space and meet a publishers' deadline?)

p 127: In the description of snails, Nanny explains that "much of the Quirm diet developed during a twenty-year siege, when the population scoffed its way through the entire contents of the zoo and were then reduced to turning over damp stones and hitting with a hammer anything that moved". During Franco-Prussian War, the Siege of Paris did indeed lead to desperate butchers turning to the botanical gardens' menagerie in search of protein. However, the Roundworld events took place long after l'escargot had become part of French cuisine.

==Other stuff==
*First and only Discworld Cookbook
*Originally published in Great Britain by Doubleday.<br />Copyright (c) 1999 by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Briggs
*Illustrations (c) by Paul Kidby

[[Category:Discworld Series|Nanny Ogg's Cookbook]]
[[Category:Food and drink|Nanny Ogg's Cookbook]]
[[Category:Reference|Nanny Ogg's Cookbook]]
[[de:Buch:Nanny Oggs Kochbuch]]

Book:Nanny Ogg's Cookbook

2016-06-30T20:03:17Z

Daibhid C: /* Annotation, or at least a puzzling anachronism */

[[File:Cover Nanny Oggs Cookbook.jpg|240px|right|thumb]]

==Blurb==
''They say that the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, which just goes to show they're as confused about anatomy as they gen'rally are about everything else, unless they're talking about instructions on how to stab them. Anyway, we do not have a perfect world and it is foresight and useful for a young woman to become proficient in those arts which will keep a weak-willed man from straying. Learning to cook is also useful.''

[[Nanny Ogg]], one of Discworld's most famous [[Witches magic|witches]], is passing on some of her huge collection of tasty and above all interesting recipes, since everyone else is doing it. But in addition to the delights of the [[Strawberry Wobbler]] and Nobby's Mum's [[Distressed Pudding]], Mrs Ogg imparts her thoughts on life, death, etiquette ('If you go to other people's funerals they'll be sure to come to yours'), courtship, children and weddings, all in a refined style that should not offend the most delicate of sensibilities. Well, not much.

Most of the recipes have been tried out on people who are still alive.

Nanny's earlier work, [[The Joye of Snacks]] (mentioned in {{M!!!}}), which (as it's parodic title would imply) contains recipes that help enhance eroticism, has apparently not yet crossed over into [[Roundworld]], unless it's become a chapter in this book? The simple answer to this, as Nanny is at pains to point out repeatedly, is that she ''simply isn't allowed to'' and that having to compromise her artistic vision has left her somewhat miffed.

The Cookbook has several strands, all of which parody aspects of Roundworld publishing as well as specific literary genres. (Oh, and the recipes also work: Mrs Colon's Genyooin Klatchian Curry is a plateful of culinary nostalgia, for those who ever ate [http://www.ciao.co.uk/Vesta_Beef_Curry__Review_5711756 Vesta packet curry] in the 1970's).

It opens with an exchange of memos between the publisher [[Goatberger|JHC Goatberger]] and his managing editor ("Overseer") Mr. [[Thomas Cropper|Cropper]], in which we learn that the print house of Goatberger's is in dire straits following a series of ill-judged editions which have left it with substantial liabilities (and possible legal actions) rather than the much-hoped for profits.

At this point, salvation arrives in the form of a manuscript from the Lancre Witch which is meant to be a follow-up to her best-seller [[The Joye of Snacks]]. This deals largely with etiquette, comportment and good manners, and indeed a goodly amount of this material makes its way into the final book.

Goatberger and Cropper ponder the ethics of publishing a book clearly plagiarised from at least twelve sources. Then they decide it can be considered "research" and publish anyway.

The book takes the form of severely abridged recipes purporting to be from the Joye of Snackes, with, as its author complains, "all the best ingredients left out". The presentation is reminiscent of one of those charity compilations which hit the bookshops like a rash just before Christmas, in which vaguely famous or at best notorious people are asked to submit their favourite cat/dog/recipe, et c, ''for charidee''. This would explain why such luminaries as [[Havelock Vetinari]], [[Patrician]], and Lady [[Sybil Ramkin|Sybil Vimes]] have lent their time to support the book. Although on what promise or premise from Goatberger is not clear, as we know the charity being supported is the Keep Goatberger Solvent Benevolent Fund. (Then again, we have no idea how much of the money from those Christmas charity compilations goes on "publishers' expenses" before the charity sees a penny).

Other contributions, such as those from Mrs [[Fred Colon ]] and [[Maisie Nobbs]] have a more personal feel to them, as though Nanny Ogg has been out and done the fieldwork personally.

The sections on good manners and etiquette are an outrageous parody of those books of the "Edwardian Country Gentlewoman" genre, for which there was a vogue some years ago.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Holden] (American readers: think Emily Post).

==Characters==

===Main characters===
*[[Nanny Ogg]]

===Cameo Appearances===
*[[Vetinari]]
*[[Maisie Nobbs]]
*[[Fred Colon]]
* King [[Verence II]] of [[Lancre]]
*[[Bergholt Stuttley Johnson|"Bloody Stupid" Johnson]]

==Annotation, or at least a puzzling anachronism==
On page 140, there is a short entry on ''The Significance of Stamps'', in which Nanny Ogg discusses the hidden language connected with where, exactly, the stamp is placed on the envelope (top-right, "the answer to your question is "yes""; top left, "don't waste your time, boy", dead-centre, "you've stamped it right over the address so it ends up at the wrong house", et c. Nanny tells us that this goes back a long way.

Yet on the Disc, stamps as we know them are the fairly recent invention of [[Moist von Lipwig]] and [[Stanley Howler]]? So how can this be explained, unless Lancre, uniquely, has been using them locally for a long time?

(Or could Nanny, inspired by seeing an Ankh-Morpork stamp, just have made it all up - well, all time-honoured traditions have to begin somewhere - to fill in space and meet a publishers' deadline?)

p 127: In the description of snails, Nanny explains that "much of the Quirm diet developed during a twenty-year siege, when the population scoffed its way through the entire contents of the zoo and were then reduced to turning over damp stones and hitting with a hammer anything that moved". During Franco-Prussian War, the Siege of Paris did indeed lead to desperate butchers turning to the botanical gardens' menagerie in search of protein. However, the Roundworld events took long after l'escargot had become part of French cuisine.

==Other stuff==
*First and only Discworld Cookbook
*Originally published in Great Britain by Doubleday.<br />Copyright (c) 1999 by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Briggs
*Illustrations (c) by Paul Kidby

[[Category:Discworld Series|Nanny Ogg's Cookbook]]
[[Category:Food and drink|Nanny Ogg's Cookbook]]
[[Category:Reference|Nanny Ogg's Cookbook]]
[[de:Buch:Nanny Oggs Kochbuch]]

Reverse Annotations

2016-01-24T22:39:48Z

Daibhid C:

== "Pani Poni Dash" ==
*In the anime "Pani Poni Dash", episode 15, a class is stuck on a bus dangling off the edge of a cliff. Himeko, a rather hyperactive girl, deludes herself into thinking that her "aura" is what's keeping the bus from falling, hence she's supporting the whole shebang. To illustrate this, she hallucinates a brief vision of the Discworld with her head superimposed on Great A'Tuin.

== "Family Guy" ==
*In {{MP}}, during the fight scene with the [[Ginger]]-monster, [[Victor Tugelbend]] resorts to a mean trick to get the dogs [[Gaspode]] and [[Laddie]] to leave the wrecked cinema. (Corgi paperback edition, p288) He throws a stick and calls "Fetch!" (Gaspode has enough self-control to shout "You bastard!" as his doggie instinct overtakes his rational mind and he chases the stick)

In the TV animated series "Family Guy", by far the most capable, intelligent, and mature member of the Griffin family is the family dog Brian, an anthropomorphic canine who is clearly an American Roundworld cousin of Gaspode, (but cleaner)

In an episode where Brian ends up improbably married to Lois Griffin after the (presumed) death of ignoramus paterfamilias Peter, Brian becomes suspicious of her absences and suspects she is having an affair. Uncomfortably aware his probing questions are getting too close to the truth, Lois resorts to throwing a ball. Brian, unable to help his fundamental doggy instinct, chases it, but pauses to call her a bitch...

Interestingly enough, a recurring character in ''Family Guy'' is Death, who is a skeletal figure in a black robe toting a scythe, but who lacks the essential gravitas of Discworld's [[Death]]... well, all lesser Deaths are subjects of [[Azrael]]...

({{MP}} - published 1990; ''Family Guy'' first aired on TV in 1999)

There is also an episode of ''Family Guy'', screened here by BBC3 on 9/12/12, where for reasons too intricate to summarise, an evil robotic version of Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana grabs the evil monkey living in Chris Griffin's closet, and climbs up a very high building with her simian hostage. ''Somebody'' on FG's production staff must read Pratchett....

In an episode of the related animation ''American Dad'', aired in Britain during September 2010, ultra-conservative American father of the title, CIA agent Stan Smith, is pursuing his dream of disposing of daughter Hayley's hippie slacker boyfriend. In a conversation that arouses Stan's sympathies, the boyfriend, who is underweight and totes a scraggly beard, discloses that "my mother ran away before I was born" - exactly Rincewind's description of his parentage... Hayley's slacker BF also role-plays a not-very-good wizard on an Internet "World of Warcraft" fantasy game.

Also in ''American Dad'', one episode features a rather Stepford-Wife-ish cooking and baking contest, in which Mother Francine and daughter Hayley are deadly rivals for the prize and acclaim. Both are beaten at the last gasp by a new contender - the rather fey alien Roger, who has taken on a Stepford disguise. The name Roger adopts for his victory as Langley Falls' greatest cook? ''Emmylou Sugarbean''.

== "Life on Mars" ==
*{{NW}} - centres on a honest copper thrown back thirty years in time to right a wrong and enable him to return to his present, exactly as he left it. The honest copper is confronted with the slightly primitive policing techniques of the past, and introduces elements of sensitive modern policing on a force not quite mentally equipped to accept it.

The BBC TV series '''Life On Mars''', by stunning coincidence, centres on a honest copper thrown back thirty years in time to right a wrong and enable him to return to his present, exactly as he left it. The honest copper is confronted with the slightly primitive policing techniques of the past, and introduces elements of sensitive modern policing on a force not quite mentally equipped to accept it.

It would appear that the book was released slightly before the TV series was conceived, but there may not be much in it...

== Lindsey Davis' "Falco" ==
*The Roman detective novel ''Saturnalia'', by self-confessed Pratchett-admirer Lindsey Davis, includes in its 26th chapter three witches who would have been at home in [[Lancre]]: they dress up to ensure they look like witches, don't suffer fools gladly and complain about the problems of modern witchcraft; the third witch, Daphne, is in fact absent because - [[Nanny Ogg]]-like - she has to look after her grandchildren.

''Saturnalia'' feels like a rich seam of Pratchett references! For instance, the character of Zosmio, who flaps around the cemetery in a white sheet pretending to be dead, and "haunting" the place - who else is this but Duke [[Leonal Felmet]] in his final insanity?

And the Vigiles of the fourth precinct have a lot in common with the Night Watch of the early [[Samuel Vimes]] era. At their Saturnalia party, one watchman dresses up as "a six-foot tall carrot", for instance.

The policing set-up in Vespasian's Rome places the Royal Palace under the control of the Praetorian Guard, a bunch of haughty bullies puffed up with their own self-importance who enjoy throwing their weight around, especially against ethnic minorities and a despised lowly group such as the Vigiles (Night Watch). Compare this to the Palace Guard, two of whose finest want to beat up Vimes just for annoying them (in {{G!G!}}), and [[Quirke|Mayonnaise Quirke]]'s Day Watch with its speciesist attitude to trolls and dwarfs.

The Vigile (Watchman) Fusculus is described in terms reiniscent of a rather more intelligent, slightly quirkier, version of [[Fred Colon]]. ("Fusculus" may come from a Latin root meaning ''"to confuse, to bamboozle"'' - confirmation anyone?) No sighting of an Ancient Roman Nobby Nobbs yet, but I haven't finished reading the book!

"Fishing from the same stream", as Terry phrases it, Lindsey Davis also has the Lord of Misrule at Saturnalia be "randomly" selected by getting the fateful bean in their lunch. Compare this to those earthly avatars of the [[Hogfather]], who were "randomly" selected for sacrifice by getting the bean. And the Roman Saturnalia and Discworld's Hogswatch are, of course, aspects of the same universal midwinter festival.

The resemblance, especially nasally, between Rome and the river Tiber to Ankh-Morpork and the Ankh, is also apparent from the books. Falco is a product of, and still lives in, the Shades of ancient Rome. His landlord is a CMOT Dibbler type who has tried various failed shortcuts to getting seriously rich.

At this point in Roman history, it should be noted, as L.D. explicitly does, that the lowly-born Emperor Vespasian (the first of the Flavian line) is very explicitly '''''not''''' a Patrician. As viewed through the eyes of central character, plebian-born Marcus Didius Falco (who is suspiciously Vimes-like in terms of cynicism), it was the patrician (ie, most illustrious, well-bred, and noble) Claudian line of Caesars who got Rome into the mess it is in today. Such Divine Caesars as Caligula and Nero were, in Falco's eyes, so well-bred as to be inbred. Note L.D.'s use of the word "patrician" in its correct Roman context, as well as the reminder about the extremely insane Caesars who did things such as make a favourite horse into a Senator. (And the [[Ankh-Morpork]] parellel is Lord [[Snapcase]], possibly?)

Oh, and the most blatantly obvious parallel between Lindsey Davis and Terry Pratchett is so obvious I missed it: the central character, Marcus Didius Falco, the private investigator, is, socially speaking, a product of the Roman gutter who from time to time goes on ruinous drinking benders. He is a born detective, part of whose pay goes on a sort of "widow's pension" for his dead brother's girlfriend and child. The love of his life (Helena Justina) is a woman from a vastly higher social class - in fact, the nobility - who is independently wealthy and can afford to flout convention. Although there is no record of Helena obsessively breeding any sort of animal, this spookily parallels Sam Vimes and Lady Sybil. (Although for a while Falco had the title of Keeper of the Royal Geese, as a personal gift from Vespasian, their only family pet is an ill-behaved scruffy mutt called Nux).

The rather spiky relationship between Falco and Emperor Vespasian also has echoes of Vimes and Vetinari. Vespasian insists on the minimum of ceremony and puts up with near-insolence from his Imperial Investigator, perhaps because he knows Falco gets results, or perhaps because he likes having somebody around who doesn't refrain from speaking his mind. (Falco is no friend of the Imperial system: he makes no secret, even to the Emperor, that he prefers the more egalitarian set-up of Republican Rome to that of the Empire. Just as Vimes reluctantly serves Vetinari while wanting to overthrow him and replace him with something better, Falco works for Vespasian and gives him grudging respect, whilst pining for something better that doesn't include Emperors or Kings. In both cases, Helena Justina and Sybil Ramkin, as women from noble families who have faithfully served and advised rulers past and present, are on hand to soothe over any little misunderstandings.)

And L.D., in her author's notes, also talks about the concept of ''tribute plagiarism'', of assimilating and paying homage to the best ideas of another author by recycling them in your own work, putting your own mark on them, and seeing if anyone notices.

(March 2009) - '''''Alexandria''''', Lindsey Davis's latest release in the Falco series, sees the husband-and-wife detective team, Marcus Didius and Helena Justina, travel to North Africa, ostensibly on a family holiday to Egypt.

However, the most prestigious University in the Roman Empire is simultaneously beset with murder among the Faculty. Is it a case of younger, ambitious and status-hungry academics ensuring their promotion by terminally accelerating the retirement plans of the men above them? As an accredited Imperial Investigator with the personal trust of the Emperor, Falco is roped in to investigate. Compare this to Vimes having the trust of Vetinari and being sent out of the City on missions combining policing expertise and a unique diplomatic skill, sometimes requiring the intervention of his socially better-bred wife.

We meet a very aesthetic art expert (Sir Reynold?), two local policemen with a suspiciously Nobbs and Colon aura about them, and members of the Alexandria University faculty who are as quarrelsome, fractious, and incapable of grasping reality, as any in a Faculty we know. Some of whom manifest very familiar vibes - the Head of Philosophy is a big harrumphing bear of a man whose mind runs on fairly rigid rails, for instance, and who isn't especially interested in other people's ideas unless they chime with his.

There is also an issue concerning the Librarian. And a bright young postgraduate with deep ideas. And priests of a syncretic religion with big ideas. Who have access to Sodek the sacred crocodile as an instrument of applied theology.

And all this in the first quarter of the book...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 23:05, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The latest book in the Falco series is called '''''Nemesis'''''.

Spotting LD's tribute plagiarisms is beginning to be fun. But in this latest episode, Falco is forced to go to a spirit medium for help (and he is left slightly spooked where she gets one thing right that she could not possibly have guessed.)

The medium is small, dressed in faded vermilion red, and wears garlands and an item of headwear consisting partly of feathers but mainly reproductions of fruit. She is irascible of temper and insists on making nettle tea before she goes to work, sending pungent vegetable odours drifting across the seance room. Falco, cynical and streetwise, gives credit to her for knowing how people work and putting on an appropriate show. But this lady evokes [[Madame Tracy]] whilst looking like Mrs [[Evadne Cake]] and gives Falco that one wavering moment of wondering if there's something in it after all...

Falco is also charged with bringing to book a ghastly criminal family, composed of a hideous overbearing monster of a mother and the thuggish sons she has alternately doted on and terrified into submission. The Claudii family come over as a Roman echo of Ma Lilywhite and her sons (although one of them isn't above hitting girls).

--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 12:49, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

== Cory Doctorow ==
From historical whodunnit to science fiction. Cory Doctorow's novel '''''Makers''''' is about a very close future, where a new wave of computer innovation backed by a co-operative capitalism akin to anarchism, brings about something like the replicators of ''Stargate-SG1''. On page 110, Geoff, who defines himself as a "chemist", remarks on drinking some ''really good'' (if chemically enhanced) coffee ([[Splot]]?). Quote: ''"Marthter, the creathathure awaketh!"'' he said, in high Igor.

Later on in "Makers", the two computer inventors, Lester and Perry, create a Cabinet of Curiosities all of their very own.

== Alan Gordon ==
Alan Gordon (born 1959) is the author of several mysteries, the first of which is based on the characters from William Shakespeare's '''''Twelfth Night'''''. He writes about jesters as advisers to the king, who actually make up a super-secret spy ring that try to keep peace and control the leaders of different countries. The Fool's Guild of these novels is portrayed as a mockery to the church, and they refer to Jesus Christ as "Their Saviour, the First Fool".

Alan Gordon began writing his novels about fools and jesters as a supra-national spy ring in 1999. This is exactly the same idea TP came up with a year or two earlier to explain the survival of the Fools' and Clowns' Guild into the modern era - that the Guild's graduates go everywhere, end up in some very high places, and periodically report back to Doctor Whiteface. Making him both very rich and very powerful.

Is it possible AG got the basic idea for the seven Fools' Guild novels from Pratchett? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Gordon_(author)]

== Douglas Adams' ''Shada'' ==
In the long-awaited novelisation of Adams' ''Dr Who'' script, the doctor (his Tom Baker incarnation) is in the captivity of the big Bad, who is demanding he read out a Galiffreyan book of lore containing the innermost secrets of the Time Lords. The Doctor, who genuinely cannot read the heiroglyphics of Ancient Gallifrey, duly does the best he can:-

''"Squiggle, squiggle." said the Dosctor, "Squiggle, squiggle, sort of an eye, I think, squiggle, squiggle..." I'm paraphrasing wildly, of course... squiggle, squiggle... ssshsh, this is a good bit! Squiggle squiggle wavy line, squggle squiggle..." ''

Not assuming Douglas Adams wrote this in the original 1976 script, but his ghost-writer Gareth Roberts might be inserting a homage to Pteppic in {{P}} here?

== Yrsa Sigurdasdottir ==
Icelandic crime fiction writer Yrsa Sigurdasdottir's debut novel '''''Last rituals''''' deals with scurrilous goings-on among postgraduate students at the University of Iceland, who have taken their PhD in Icelandic ritual magic seriously, to the point of practically testing whether the old magic rituals and curses still work in the modern world. She passes on the snippet that a legendary founder of the academic tradition in Iceland was a mediaeval wizard, whose statue still takes pride of place in front of the main University building where everyone can see it. As well as this, there is a visit to a museum of native Icelandic magic, where a minor plot-point concerns whether or not a Viking artefact, a large stone collection bowl used to contain the blood of a sacrifical victim, is the real thing, or if it has been surreptitiously switched with a modern replica and the original stolen for some nefarious purpose... has Terry been translated into Icelandic, or are these two points part of the universal pool of plot-points drawn on for {{T!}} and the general layout of Unseen University? --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 00:34, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

==John Moore==
* In John Moore's '''''Slay and Rescue''''' there's a mention of a shoemaker who made luxury (and impossible to wear) shoes before quitting and becoming the chief [[quisition|torturer]] for king [[Brutha|Bruno]] of [[Omnia]]. (The Czech translation made the reference to {{SG}} even more explicit, translating "chief torturer" as "chief inquisitor".)
* The book '''''Bad Prince Charlie''''' by John Moore has a footnote where the author says that it's a good idea to use footnotes because Terry Pratchett uses them and people like his books, after all.
* In '''''Unhandsome Prince''''' there exists a [[Thieves' Guild]] and an [[Assassins' Guild]]. (Anybody stupid enough to enter one of the buildings to join the guild or to make use of their services will find out that they are fake - a set up by the royal guards.)

== Dragon Magazine ==
* In Issue 293, an article on minor deities appears, titled "Small Gods." To further drive home the reference, the first illustration is of a not particularly bright looking man stranded in the desert being approached by a robed figure with the head of a bull.
* In Issue 271, in the comic strip "What's New? With Phil and Dixie", a poster on a wall reads "Visit beautiful Ankh-Morpork".

== Scrapheap Challenge ==
* On the second episode of the engineering game show ''Scrapheap Challenge'' (called ''Junkyard Wars'' in the US), the Orange team named their bodged-together Power Puller "The Great A'Tuin". It lost the challenge, winning only one out of three rounds of tug-of-war against the Yellow team's "Eat My Shorts".

==Charles Stross==
* In Charles Stross's near-future technothriller ''''''Halting State''''', a character enlivens a bus ride through Edinburgh by using Augumented Reality to turn it into Ankh-Morpork.

==Ben Aaronovitch==
* Ben Aaronovitch's ''New Doctor Who Adventures'' novel ''The Also People'' features, at various points, reference to a suspicious yellow dip at parties that no-one ever eats, the Doctor having octagons in his eyes to see things others can't, a cocktail called a Double Entendre, a market trader called C!Mot and a chapter headed "A Better Class of Recurring Dream".
* Aaronovitch has stated on his blog that part of the inspiration for his ''Rivers of London'' urban fantasy series was a throwaway line in ''[[The Science of Discworld]]'' that if there were rules of magic in our world, Newton would have discovered them.

==Girl Genius==
* In one episode of the "gaslight fantasy" webcomic "Girl Genius" by Phil and Katja Foglio, the "clanks" (steampunk robots) attacking the Baron include large wooden chests with sharp teeth and mechanical legs. In case anyone thinks it might be a coincidence, the lead chest has the name of its owner written on it: "The Amazing Pratchett".

==Unravelling the Mystery==
It all started with a Big Bang. (Bang!) Think {{SOD1}}. The Wizards of Unseen University create a pocket universe, made real and tangible inside a glass-like protective sphere allowing full three-dimensional views. The wizard tasked with making sense of it all is relatively young, rather geeky, wears glasses, and affects something not unlike a shapeless grey-green parka. Meanwhile at Caltech University in Pasadena, CA, there is a youngish research physicist who is geeky in appearance, wears glasses and a shapeless grey-green parka. Knowing about holograms, he darkens the room and projects a series of hologrammatic pictures of Earth and the solar system and the Milky Way, into the air to enchant his girlfriend. This looks a lot like the enduring image of {{SOD1}} - a world-globe hanging in the air, supported nowhere. Especially when he speculates about whether the Universe and all in it might have been created to provide information for a remote intelligence, for its own ends...See ''The Hologram Excitation'' episode of American geek-science sitcom ''The Big Bang Theory''. TBBT depends on fantasy, comic-book, sci-fi and geek cultural references to power the scripts. This would appear to be the first and so far only Discworld reference, as yet. {{SOD1}} co-authors [[Jack Cohen]] and [[Ian Stewart]] are both well-known in American academic circles and hold American academic positions; both have written for the academic trade press. This could be a case where Cohen and Stewart are more famous, to a very specialised readership, than Terry?

In {{SOD3}}, Jack Cohen ruefully describes a bad experience he had whilst working as an academic and going on lecture tours across the USA. He was heckled by a tough audience to whom he was trying to explain why evolution is the accepted scientific truth and Creationism doesn't have a leg to stand on. This was in East Texas, a part of the world where evolutionists tend to be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail, if not burnt at the stake as agents of Satan. In ''TBBT'', lead character Sheldon Cooper is from East Texas and views having moved to California as intellectual liberation. His greatest fear is losing scientific credibility and being forced to return home to teach High School science. specifically, having to teach Evolution to Creationists. (His mother is a true believer in Christianity and a Creationist.)

There is also a tantalising scene where the guys have dressed up as ''Planet of the Apes'' characters and Raj ruefully says he'd have preferred to wear the orang-utan costume but the others voted him down... a bit tenuous, but you wonder if another reference was intended here.

Season Eight saw character evolution in the initially awkward and somewhat aloof character of Amy Farrah-Fowler. She is a neurobiological doctor who performs behavioural and surgical/chemical experiments on animals, principally simians. She is a moderately skilled animal handler who knows how to get the best out of her subjects, even keeping experimental animals as semi-pets in her home. For the five or six seasons - over a hundred and twenty episodes - in which she is a core character, she is casually inaccurate in her terminology, classing everything simian as a "mere monkey". But from the very end of Season Seven and into the current Season Eight, she very abruptly began to make the correct distinction between "monkeys" and "apes". This came out of nowhere. Indeed, she even rebukes Sheldon for calling an orang-utan a "monkey". Where did this suddenly come from.... could it be that one TBBT character has discovered Terry Pratchett and is playing safe around her simian co-researchers?

==Criminal Minds==
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." was quoted at the start of season 4 episode 20 "Conflicted" by Reid in a much more sinister way than TP used it and referring to good and evil, unlike the original, unsurprising concidering that Criminal Minds deals with serial killers as a matter of coarse. TP was acknowledged as the originator of the saying.

==Welcome to his Nightmare==
Outrageous singer and performance artiste Alice Cooper's 2011 album '''''Welcome 2 My Nightmare''''' contains a song called ''The Congregation''. This line made me stop and wonder.

''"And here in the fiery pit of boiling death, the lawyers, pimps, and mimes."''

An intelligent and well-read chap of a Gothic inclination cannot have failed to have stumbled on the works of Terry....
[[Category:Annotations]]

==Sharpe==
* In Bernard Cornwell's ''Sharpe'' tales, about a proto-commando in the Napoleonic Wars, the huge and hulking Sergeant Harper totes a [[Piecemaker|fearsome seven-barreled musket]], originally designed for close-quarter naval use with the express intention of bringing down a battleship's mainmast and rigging. This failed as a naval weapon because sailors tend to be smaller and wirier men whose talents lie elsewhere. Besides, to fire a weapon like this from the deck of a rolling and pitching ship could be... something of an own goal. But the huge Harper, who has a suspiciously Detritus-to-Vimes relationship with Captain Sharpe, takes to it like a troll to a siege weapon. Like Carrot and Detritus, the enduring friendship and mutual respect of the two men began with a fist-fight, which, against the odds, was won by Sharpe. Sharpe is a heavy-drinking outsider who rose to officer's rank from the Regency London equivalent of the Shades (the Rookery) and made his way up from the ranks, against the odds. Lord Wellington is portrayed as a devious Vetinari-like figure (who eventually entered politics and was a most effective Prime Minister). Sharpe also exposes political corruption by his social betters and both annoys them - and gets their respect. The Rust-like disposition of many British senior officers is explicitly dwelt upon. Sharpe eventually marries to a far higher social level and his wife has enviable Sybil Ramkin-like characteristics. (Memo: Cornwell may be a Discworld fan?)

==Doctor Who Magazine==
* In the DWM comic strip "Fire and Brimstone", the Eighth Doctor's companion Izzy describes the book she's reading as featuring "This mad city called Ankh-Morpork, and an old hag called Granny Weatherwax, and the whole world, right, is a disc and sits on the back of a turtle." She asks the Doctor why they can't visit somewhere like the Discworld and he replies "Izzy, I've ''been''. It was flat."

==The ''other'' Night Watch==
* Sergei Lukyanenko's fantasy novels about the detente between Light and Dark magic users in present-day Moscow have a Pratchett homage in book five, ''The New Watch''. Day Watch member Anton Gorodetsky (Higher Light Magician) is passing a fatherly eye over his daughter Nadja's reading choices. Being a magical policeman and loving father is not easy, especially when she's ten and showing clear signs of being a magic-capable Other. He reflects that her initial ecstasy at learning she is to be sent to a school for young magicians is going to turn into crushing disappointment, when she realises it's nothing like Hogwarts. Or indeed Unseen University. Anton then muses on how Rincewind might have got it more right than Terry Pratchett ever believed, with his strategy of using no magic at all and running like Hell when confronted with peril. As he is about to become last line of defence for the Day Watch against an un-known magic user of immense ability which far outstrips his own, he ruefully wishes he had the Rincewind option....

==Meanwhile, in Oslo==
* Jo Nesbo's series of police procedural novels are about a dissillusioned copper who has turned to drink to blot it all out. Harry Hole doesn't give a stuff who he offends in search of the truth, and he treats attempts at covering up or protecting well-placed people with scorn. His superiors can't get rid of him as he's just too good at what he does. He is disparagingly Republican about Norway's residual Royalty and upper classes, and in his world, Oslo is a crapsack city based on a rather smelly river with its upmarket bits on one bank, populated by that which invariably rises to the top. He is no friend to the privileged but has no illusions about the people living on the wrong side of the river, either. His preferred pub is a low joint on the river populated by quarellsome low-life types. He tends to galvanise a jaded and demoralised police force into action, and his superiors treat him with wary respect. He prefers his native city but has been forced to travel, with protest, to other countries to investigate issues there. Hmm.

==And in rural Cheshire near a place oddly reminiscent of the Long Man==
* '''Boneland''', Alan Garner's long-in-the-making sequel to his first fantasy novels ''The Weirdstone of Brisingamen'' and ''The Moon of Gomrath'', has a lot to say about rocks. The sound of flint-knapping is rendered "Tak, Tak, Tak, Tak, Tak", for instance. And the legend of a Creator calling life into being out of stone eggs is discussed at some length. Admittedly there is also a sly reference to a certain Genesis single. But Pratchett, as a modern weaver of old strands into new stories, is homaged here.

=="Endeavour"==
*In the episode "Coda" of the ''Inspoector Morse'' prequel, Inspector Thursday mentions his old boss, one Sergeant Vimes of Cable Street.

Alice Venturi

2015-12-06T13:26:52Z

Daibhid C: /* Character Annotations */

[[Twurp's Peerage]] notes that she was born in 1799 and died in 1864. Her interests are listed as embroidery, ethnography, corsetry, anthropology, writing and public speaking.

She gained access to the family fortunes late in life, which allowed her to travel in what she coyly referred to as the "Dark Hinterland" of [[Klatch]] and [[Howondaland]].

In pursuit of the ethnography and anthropology, she travelled widely among the sort of peoples who people in [[Ankh-Morpork]] would consider to be backward and primitive, meticulously collecting details of their quaint and folklorique ethnic pathways.

The extensive records she brought back were used to illuminate her public speaking engagements, which were inevitably sellouts.

Part of the reason why her talks were sellouts with standing room only may be gleaned from the titles of her books: ''[[The Harem Frescoes of Old Klatch, Interesting Customs Among the N'Kouf]]'', and ''[[Travels in the Dark Hinterland]].

The few existing copies of ''The Harem Frescoes of Old Klatch, Interesting Customs Among the [[N'Kouf]]'' which did not spontaneously combust on printing, are now sought after among the more discerning collector. Her collection of tribal fetishes and ceremonial objects is locked up in a secure vault: a typical example is labelled ''Personal Ornament of T'etse Males Over The Age of Thirteen'' .

There is a suspicion that as the tribes got to know her, some of the more inventive and ingenious traditional ceremonies were devised especially for her, amidst much amusement...

The conclusion of this story is perhaps that activities which would summon the Watch if they happened on your doorstep become intriguing ethnic folkways if performed two thousand miles away with a feather threaded through them. She can be seen to have a lot in common with [[Twoflower]] and might predate him as the Disc's first tourist. Except of course that so well-bred a lady wouldn't ''dream'' of being anything so common as a tourist. She was a serious scholar, so there!

Her gravestone in the cemetery of Small Gods is decorated with reproductions of Klatchian temple carvings, and may be viewed by prior appointment by parties which strictly exclude unmarried women under the age of thirty.

==Character Annotations==
She may be modeled on {{wp|Margaret_mead|Margaret Mead}} who studied the habits of adolescents in the South Pacific. As with Lady Alice, it has been suggested that Mead may have been hoaxed by some of her research subjects.

One of the kinds of things Lady Alice was interested in was ritual circumcision. If you want to know why this was such a colourful subject for study, check out the real-world accounts of the customs of the Dowayo of Cameroon by Nigel Barley. Here, truly, are a people who make Jews and Muslims look like wussies when it comes to doing horrible things to their young men's willies.

As well, she shares some similarity with {{wp|Alice_Roosevelt_Longworth|Alice Roosevelt}}, daughter of the American President Theodore Roosevelt. They have the same first names, both are from aristocratic background and spent much of their time travelling around the world.

Her name and the region in which she did her research, makes her "Alice in Hwondaland".

[[Category:Discworld characters|Venturi, Alice]]
[[Category:Human characters|Venturi, Alice]]
[[de:Alice Venturi]]

Alice Venturi

2015-12-06T13:25:45Z

Daibhid C: /* Character Annotations */

[[Twurp's Peerage]] notes that she was born in 1799 and died in 1864. Her interests are listed as embroidery, ethnography, corsetry, anthropology, writing and public speaking.

She gained access to the family fortunes late in life, which allowed her to travel in what she coyly referred to as the "Dark Hinterland" of [[Klatch]] and [[Howondaland]].

In pursuit of the ethnography and anthropology, she travelled widely among the sort of peoples who people in [[Ankh-Morpork]] would consider to be backward and primitive, meticulously collecting details of their quaint and folklorique ethnic pathways.

The extensive records she brought back were used to illuminate her public speaking engagements, which were inevitably sellouts.

Part of the reason why her talks were sellouts with standing room only may be gleaned from the titles of her books: ''[[The Harem Frescoes of Old Klatch, Interesting Customs Among the N'Kouf]]'', and ''[[Travels in the Dark Hinterland]].

The few existing copies of ''The Harem Frescoes of Old Klatch, Interesting Customs Among the [[N'Kouf]]'' which did not spontaneously combust on printing, are now sought after among the more discerning collector. Her collection of tribal fetishes and ceremonial objects is locked up in a secure vault: a typical example is labelled ''Personal Ornament of T'etse Males Over The Age of Thirteen'' .

There is a suspicion that as the tribes got to know her, some of the more inventive and ingenious traditional ceremonies were devised especially for her, amidst much amusement...

The conclusion of this story is perhaps that activities which would summon the Watch if they happened on your doorstep become intriguing ethnic folkways if performed two thousand miles away with a feather threaded through them. She can be seen to have a lot in common with [[Twoflower]] and might predate him as the Disc's first tourist. Except of course that so well-bred a lady wouldn't ''dream'' of being anything so common as a tourist. She was a serious scholar, so there!

Her gravestone in the cemetery of Small Gods is decorated with reproductions of Klatchian temple carvings, and may be viewed by prior appointment by parties which strictly exclude unmarried women under the age of thirty.

==Character Annotations==
She may be modeled on {{wp|Margaret_mead|Margaret Mead}} who studied the habits of adolescents in the South Pacific. As with Lady Alice, it has been suggested that Mead may have been hoaxed by some of her research subjects.

One of the kinds of things Lady Alice was interested in was ritual circumcision. If you want to know why this was such a colourful subject for study, check out the real-world accounts of the customs of the Dowayo of Cameroon by Nigel Barley. Here, truly, are a people who make Jews and Muslims look like wussies when it comes to doing horrible things to their young men's willies.

As well, she shares some similarity with {{wp|Alice_Roosevelt_Longworth|Alice Roosevelt}}, daughter of the American President Theodore Roosevelt. They have the same first names, both are from aristocratic background and spent much of their time travelling around the world.

[[Category:Discworld characters|Venturi, Alice]]
[[Category:Human characters|Venturi, Alice]]
[[de:Alice Venturi]]

Guild of Architects

2015-11-30T15:08:58Z

Daibhid C:

The [[Guilds of Ankh-Morpork|Guild]] defending the interests of the city's building designers. An institution which hands out awards and prizes for innovative building design.

''"Innovative",'' in this context, might come from the same lexicon as ''"daring"'' or ''"novel"'' to a career civil servant: it denotes "totally untried and untested, and we reserve judgement on how soon that flat roof is going to leak or those flimsy windows are going to fall out in a light breeze. Even though the building might end up as totally unfit for the purpose, by the time anyone notices we can put it down to normal structural deterioration. Or else we can make veiled suggestions that because the design was so new and innovative, the fault is really with the builders who put it up, or the buyer who uses the building. It's so radical a concept that they aren't able to look after it properly. Either way, it's not ''our'' fault if they persist in using it. In any case, anyone worrying about such petty things as whether or not the roof leaks on an award-winning building is self-evidently not a creative professional, and we don't need to waste any breath on non-creative garbage of that sort."

It is entirely possible that [[Bergholt Stuttley Johnson|"Bloody Stupid" Johnson]] was a member.

The Guild of Architects Press are the publishers of ''The Edible Architecture of Bergholt Stuttley Johnson'' and ''The Guild Houses of Ankh-Morpork'', both by Startup Nodder, FAMG, AitD, and probably ''The Guide to Impossible Buildings'' by W.H.J. Whittlbey, which suggests that if [[Death]] had any taste, [[Death's Domain|his Domain]] would look very different, and proper architects would live longer.

== Other prominent architects mentioned in the Discworld books ==

* the [[Ptaclusp]] family of [[Djelibeybi]]
* [[Goldeneyes Silverhand Dactylos ]]

== Buildings which actually have won major architectural awards in the Discworld and other books ==

* the [[Ankh-Morpork Mint]]
* the [[Joshua N'Clement]] building
* the [[High Energy Magic]] building at [[UU]], where the flat roofs won special mention, and the windows have barely begun to let in water yet...

[[Category:Ankh-Morpork Businesses|Architects,Guild of]]
[[Category:Guilds|Architects,Guild of]]
[[de:Architektengilde]]

Jonathan Teatime

2015-11-17T23:28:01Z

Daibhid C:

{{Character Data
|title= Mr. Teatime
|photo= Teatimemine.jpg|Mr. Teatime by [[User:Darkplush|Kit Cox]]
|name= Jonathan Teatime
|age= In his 20s or early 30s
|race= [[Humans|Human]]
|occupation= Assassin
|appearance= Boyish, smiling, curly hair. One eye has a pin-hole-sized pupil, the other is glass
|residence= [[Assassins' Guild]]
|death= At the end of {{H}}, which would be around [[1988 UC]]
|parents= Not named; died in a tragic accident, though the accident may have been bringing Jonathan into the world.
|relatives=
|children=
|marital status=
|books= {{H}}
|cameos=
}}

'''Mr. Jonathan Teatime''', (pronounced "''Teh-ah-tim-eh'',") was a graduate assassin from [[Ankh-Morpork]], who was hired by the [[Auditors]] to inhume the [[Hogfather]].

He was taken into the Ankh-Morpork [[Assassins' Guild]] as a child because the administration took pity on him after his parents suffered a tragic accident. Lord Downey once reflected that the Guild should have looked into this.

He is boyishly handsome, with curly hair and a ready smile, but these features are ruined by his eyes. One is glass and the other is off-white, with a tiny, pinhole-sized pupil. He is, undoubtedly, a genius, but also sociopathic to an astonishing degree. His mind has been compared at times to both a corkscrew and a shattered mirror (i.e. something brilliant, sharp, and dazzling, but also fundamentally and irrevocably broken). His main problem seems to be that he sees things differently from other people, in that he sees other people as things. This gets him into a spot of trouble early on, as his assassinations often include the brutal murders of not just the target, but also their family, their servants, and very often their pets, all of which is, while not against Guild policy, definitely against the philosophy of the Guild, which is elegance and style in everything.

However, when the [[Auditors]] need someone to assassinate the [[Hogfather]], Mr. Teatime is just the man for the job. When questioned, he reveals to his superior, [[Lord Downey]], that he devised methods to inhume, not only the Hogfather, but also the [[Tooth Fairy]] and the [[Soul Cake Duck]] (Discworld's version of the Easter Bunny), among others (including [[Death]]) in his spare time. In the instance of the Hogfather it was while waiting up one Hogswatch eve when most kids are listening for sleigh bells. He commissions the help of a cadre of criminals, ranging from big [[Banjo Lilywhite]] to the locksmith Mr.[[Brown]], and sets about putting his ingenious plan into action, which inevitably pits him against [[Susan Sto Helit]] and her grandfather, Death.

Most of the time, Mr. Teatime seems a pleasant, albeit odd, young man. He only seems to get irritated when people mispronounce his name. However, he possesses physical abilities which defy physics, and has been known to perform feats such as stabbing through all layers of clothing but stopping before hitting flesh, holding a blade just touching the eye, flipping on thin air, and killing so fast he appears to be a blur, all of which he will do without any notice or provocation. Rumours among his associates (somewhat confirmed in the non-canonical GURPS Discworld sourcebook) imply that the glass eye is in fact a scrying crystal, which might go some way towards explaining his abilities but also means that he had implanted Discworld-magic ''into his own eye socket''. At the end of the events of {{H}}, the glass eye in-question ended-up in the possession of young [[Gawain Gaiter]], who'd found it lying in the Gaiter's nursery-fireplace after Teatime's body had been removed and mistook it for a marble, with which he would never lose a game.

Supporting the premise that Jonathan's parents were killed by Teatime himself is what Susan Sto Helit says about his childhood: "''You were the little boy who didn't know the difference between throwing a stone at a cat and setting a cat on fire''". She continued to say: "''You were the little boy that looked up little dolls dresses''"; he denied that remark.

The Assassins' Guild lists him as having vanished without trace since the events in Hogfather, though they have named a "''Teatime Prize''" in his honour, which is given annually to the student who devises the most creative hypothetical inhumation.

In the Sky One adaption of Hogfather, Mr. Teatime is played by Marc Warren.

==Annotation==
The name "Teatime" is very likely a tribute to fellow fantasy writer Douglas' Adams work, [[wikipedia:The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul|The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul]]. The central premise of the novel is that the gods were created by the human compulsion to personify forces. They never completely die, but rather become more and more powerless as fewer people believe in them, and eventually end up as a sort of divine vagrant. In Adams' novel the gods are quite easily taken advantage of by unscrupulous humans.

[[Category:Discworld characters|Teatime,Jonathan]]
[[Category:Leading characters|Teatime,Jonathan]]
[[de:Jonathan Kaffeetrinken]]

Talk:Linoleum

2015-08-30T22:20:35Z

Daibhid C:

Nosferatu is very similar to Notfaroutoe (see [[Notfaroutoe|Arthur Winkings]]). Any connection?

Interesting point. The source material does not record how long ago Linoleum lived in relation to " the present day", but it's a safe bet his esteem for vampires would not have been enhanced by meeting Arthur, or indeed Doreen, Winking! Or maybe "nosferatu", a Rumanian generic word used in its broad mening of "undead" (and they should know: Transylvania is a part of Rumania) was about on the Disc in the same sense and context...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 11:22, 14 October 2011 (CEST)

What book does he appear in? New one on me, and not mentioned in the ''Companion''. [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 21:02, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
:AgProv's associate A A Pessimal suggests he's only in [[Discworld Noir]]. If so, this should probably be mentioned. I thought I remembered reading about him but I have these hallucinations fairly often. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:55, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
::Ah, of course. Been a while since I played it, but it rings a bell now. [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 22:20, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Linoleum

2015-08-30T22:20:19Z

Daibhid C:

Nosferatu is very similar to Notfaroutoe (see [[Notfaroutoe|Arthur Winkings]]). Any connection?

Interesting point. The source material does not record how long ago Linoleum lived in relation to " the present day", but it's a safe bet his esteem for vampires would not have been enhanced by meeting Arthur, or indeed Doreen, Winking! Or maybe "nosferatu", a Rumanian generic word used in its broad mening of "undead" (and they should know: Transylvania is a part of Rumania) was about on the Disc in the same sense and context...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 11:22, 14 October 2011 (CEST)

What book does he appear in? New one on me, and not mentioned in the ''Companion''. [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 21:02, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
:AgProv's associate A A Pessimal suggests he's only in [[Discworld Noir]]. If so, this should probably be mentioned. I thought I remembered reading about him but I have these hallucinations fairly often. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:55, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
::Ah, of course. Been a while since I read it, but it rings a bell now. [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 22:20, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Sto Plains Dealer

2015-08-29T21:21:35Z

Daibhid C:

From evidential context in {{GP}}, the local manifestation of the London ''Financial Times'' or the New York ''Wall Street Journal'', ie a regular publication keeping track of stocks, shares, exchange rates and financial movements around the principal cities of the [[Circle Sea]] region.

==Annotation==
The ''Sto Plains Dealer'' almost shares a name with the Roundworld American newspapers ''The Plain Dealer'' in Ohio and the ''Wabash Plain Dealer'' in Indiana. These names use "plain" to mean "straighforward" rather than "flat expanse of land".

[[Category:Discworld publications]]
[[de:Sto-Ebene-Anzeiger]]

Linoleum

2015-08-29T21:14:01Z

Daibhid C:

The [[Discworld]] scientist and anal retentive who is credited with creating the Latatian classifications for nearly all its plant and animal species.

Linoleum is said to have had the sense of humour and and the social adjustment of a compulsive practical joker. Certainly some of his classifications for more sentient species on the Disc lack a certain something when translated out of the Latatian. The certain something thought to be missing is generally held to be ''tact'', ''common diplomacy'', or even a healthy attitude towards self-preservation.

Consider these:-
* ''Homo Sapiens'' (man) - the wise human.
* ''Hortus Decorus'' ([[Dwarfs]]) - lawn ornament.
* ''Stultus Saxum'' ([[Trolls]]) - stupid rocks.
* ''Nosferatu Sanguineous'' ([[Vampires]]) - bloody undead!
* ''Lupus Sapiens'' ([[Werewolves]]) - clever doggies.

History does not record who was responsible for killing Linoleum, but a full and detailed volume of suspects was once published.

The Watch did not investigate the death of Linoleum for very long as they took the professional view that this is what’s known in Ankh-Morpork as a '[[Suicide]]', (with a Capital 'S').

== Annotation ==
Based on the eighteenth century Swedish natural scientist Linnaeus[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linnaeus], who came up with the Latinate hierarchy in use today to name and describe all living things. He was not as suicidally incautious, although he had less promising raw material to begin from (instead, he indulged his sense of humour by including references to sex whenever possible). He did, however, call into being the genus ''vampyrum'' for the vampire bat, ''Vampyrus spectrus''. Note the "y".

[[Category:Discworld characters]]

Talk:Linoleum

2015-08-29T21:10:57Z

Daibhid C:

Talk:Linoleum

2015-08-29T21:10:36Z

Daibhid C:

Talk:Linoleum

2015-08-29T21:02:14Z

Daibhid C:

Talk:Reverse Annotations

2014-10-24T11:38:17Z

Daibhid C: /* Sharpe */

Sorry to be annoying, but I really don't think the thing about Brian from Family Guy is a reverse annotation. The idea of an animal endowed with intelligence falling victim to baser instincts (with, as the scrolls say, hilarious results) is more like one of those joke archetypes that sort of floats around and pops up every now and again. I'm gonna show some embarassing roots here, but Jessie and James would throw balls of yarn at Meowth to distract him in the anime Pokemon (and I quite doubt the writers drew much inspiration from Terry). Nor do I think FG's Death and Terry's Death have anything more in common than being Grim Reaper figures in a humourous world. (unsigned comment by [[User:BasementOfTheMansion|BasementOfTheMansion]], 16 Aug 2007)

Hmm.. point taken but the incidental detail of Gaspode's "You bastard" set against Brian Griffin's "You bitch!" does tend to suggest that somebody on '''''Family Guy''''''s scriptwriting committee is familiar with Pratchett... also, the Death of '''''Family Guy''''' lives in a modest home and has a positively banal home life with his extended Death family...

I do agree that to make an annotation REALLY stick, I will need to look for more and more parellels and clear, specific, references to Pratchettania in episodes of F.G.

For instance, Death has recently appeared in an episode of '''''The Simpsons''''' in the full hooded, cowled and scythe-carrying skeletal version.
Even though the Death of Springfield ticks at least some of the boxes, he failed to convince as an annotation of any sort for two reasons.

i) There was absolutely nothing to link him specifically with the Discworld Death. No Binky, no Death-of-Rats, no homage dialogue, nothing specific;

ii) In fact, where we are told Death's eyesockets normally glow blue except when he is annoyed, the Death of Springfield had glowing ''red'' eyes all through. He was also notified of the next candidate for the Duty not by receipt of their lifetimer, but by an illuminated scroll on which the name of the soon-to-be-deceased was written.

Conclusion: the Death of Springfield is, alas, just another generic Death.

Watch this space!--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 12:37, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

== ==
"'Fusculus' may come from a Latin root meaning "to confuse, to bamboozle" - confirmation anyone?" To darken, actually, but close enough. Fusco. See, for instance, "obfuscate." (unsigned comment by 208.101.178.28, 10 May 2009)

== ==
The idea of the alcoholic detective rehabilitated by the wealthy socialite goes back at least another half-century to ''The Thin Man'', as I note in the header of my user page. Nick Charles didn't give up drinking, of course, and Nora matched him Martini for Martini. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 21:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

== Cartoons? ==

It says a lot for me and the Internet that I'm coming accross more and more web-cartoon fantasy series that pay occassional and explicit homage to Pratchett, either in dialogue, characterisation, settings or tribute-plagiarised dialogue points.

All tis is getting so prolific - and ultimately slight - that I wonder if there's any real point in going into details here, save that, for instance, David Rennick's "Legend of Bill" may be found here, "Brat-Halla" here, and "Blooming Faeries!" here... all good funny laugh-out-loud ideas, btw. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 04:24, 28 December 2010 (CET)

As the author of Bloomin' Faeries! and someone who's never read a book of Terry Pratchett, I'm very flattered by the reference and comparison, but I'm also compelled to ask where my material intersects with that of Pratchett. --[[User:jayceeknight|jayceeknight]]
:Having just had a quick shufti, I'm at a loss, too...maybe just the ''mention'' of fairies? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 02:09, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

What, ''never'' read Pratchett? I've just been moved to go back and re-read the full story arc of [http://www.example.com ''Bloomin' Faeries''] (always a pleasure, Jaycee) and look for those elements that put me in mind of TP... let's see. Faeries/Elves as prone to putting glamour and enchantment on people just because they can and for their own amusement; a subversion of the conventions of fantasy; capricious royalty, morally suspect wizards, thick but hearty Heroes, a magical people with a basic sense of humour.... the sort of stuff TP covers in the first half-dozen or so Discworld books. There are undertones of the Wyrmberg business in the interplay between the Princess Heather, her two Hero suitors and her brat-prince brother, althugh this is all completely coincidental. Although I agree Shakespeare uses similar referents such as Bottom the Ass, referring to the Prince's trusty war-mount which can speak English after magical intervention. And the bashful talking tree... (bringing us back to {{WS}} and {{LL}} again). But I agree there are no specific shout-outs in this cartoon that can be taken as homage elements to episodes in the Pratchett canon... there's also a lot less overt sex in the Discworld, too. Let's say a nicely done cartoon serial in similar vein and one which is well worth referencing in its own right? And read some Terry... not that you're stuck for ideas, by any means, but I think you'll like it! Mucho regards --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 23:47, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

And here's an idea: a Webcomics section of "Reading Suggestions" that points readers to some most excellent fantasy comic strips, especially the ones playing the genre for humour and laughs. I propose Jaycee's as the first, but with a caveat about the adult humour content. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 23:54, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

I think the idea of a Webcomics section is an excellent idea that wouldn't be to hard to set up; the only problem I see in it is that there are many webcomics that have mature themes in them; should all comics be allowed or should there be limits? Either way some ground rules would have made on what should be allowed and how it should be identifed--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 00:09, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

==Yrsa==
{{wp|Yrsa Sigurðardóttir|Sigurða'''r'''dóttir}}, apparently. I suspect an Icelandic writer (and civil engineer!) can read the original Pratchetts. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 01:31, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

Joseph Wambaughs recently released "Hollywood Hills" contain a character named Raleigh S. Dibble, a caterer (whose food actually is edible), having business ventures that tends to become Wahoona shaped, but really isn't a criminal. Somewhat rodent-looking, too. Combine with a host of LAPD officers who would not be out of place in the AMCW (except for the leadership of the AMCW being somewhat better), and you see a clearcut case of a literary morphogenetic field.

== ==
I'm not sure about the Cabinet of Curiousities-these can be found in many museums. A strong coffee isn't particularly notable on the Discworld is it? The Igors is probably the most Discworld, and even then it ''could'' come from Hammer Horror. [[User:Marmosetpower|Marmosetpower]] 20:17, 8 November 2011 (CET)

==Big Bang==
Coming from East Texas, Sheldon Cooper's scientific achievements pale in comparison to his learning to ''talk'' like that. (East Texas also gave us Janis Joplin and other less-fundamentalist icons.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:51, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

==Sharpe==
I did some checking, and Harper's 7-barreller apparently first appears in ''Sharpe's Company'' published in 1982. I therefore consider it unlikely that it's a reference to the Piecemaker, which makes its first appearance in ''Men at Arms'', published eleven years later. [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 11:37, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Reverse Annotations

2014-10-24T11:37:37Z

Daibhid C:

Sorry to be annoying, but I really don't think the thing about Brian from Family Guy is a reverse annotation. The idea of an animal endowed with intelligence falling victim to baser instincts (with, as the scrolls say, hilarious results) is more like one of those joke archetypes that sort of floats around and pops up every now and again. I'm gonna show some embarassing roots here, but Jessie and James would throw balls of yarn at Meowth to distract him in the anime Pokemon (and I quite doubt the writers drew much inspiration from Terry). Nor do I think FG's Death and Terry's Death have anything more in common than being Grim Reaper figures in a humourous world. (unsigned comment by [[User:BasementOfTheMansion|BasementOfTheMansion]], 16 Aug 2007)

Hmm.. point taken but the incidental detail of Gaspode's "You bastard" set against Brian Griffin's "You bitch!" does tend to suggest that somebody on '''''Family Guy''''''s scriptwriting committee is familiar with Pratchett... also, the Death of '''''Family Guy''''' lives in a modest home and has a positively banal home life with his extended Death family...

I do agree that to make an annotation REALLY stick, I will need to look for more and more parellels and clear, specific, references to Pratchettania in episodes of F.G.

For instance, Death has recently appeared in an episode of '''''The Simpsons''''' in the full hooded, cowled and scythe-carrying skeletal version.
Even though the Death of Springfield ticks at least some of the boxes, he failed to convince as an annotation of any sort for two reasons.

i) There was absolutely nothing to link him specifically with the Discworld Death. No Binky, no Death-of-Rats, no homage dialogue, nothing specific;

ii) In fact, where we are told Death's eyesockets normally glow blue except when he is annoyed, the Death of Springfield had glowing ''red'' eyes all through. He was also notified of the next candidate for the Duty not by receipt of their lifetimer, but by an illuminated scroll on which the name of the soon-to-be-deceased was written.

Conclusion: the Death of Springfield is, alas, just another generic Death.

Watch this space!--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 12:37, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

== ==
"'Fusculus' may come from a Latin root meaning "to confuse, to bamboozle" - confirmation anyone?" To darken, actually, but close enough. Fusco. See, for instance, "obfuscate." (unsigned comment by 208.101.178.28, 10 May 2009)

== ==
The idea of the alcoholic detective rehabilitated by the wealthy socialite goes back at least another half-century to ''The Thin Man'', as I note in the header of my user page. Nick Charles didn't give up drinking, of course, and Nora matched him Martini for Martini. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 21:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

== Cartoons? ==

It says a lot for me and the Internet that I'm coming accross more and more web-cartoon fantasy series that pay occassional and explicit homage to Pratchett, either in dialogue, characterisation, settings or tribute-plagiarised dialogue points.

All tis is getting so prolific - and ultimately slight - that I wonder if there's any real point in going into details here, save that, for instance, David Rennick's "Legend of Bill" may be found here, "Brat-Halla" here, and "Blooming Faeries!" here... all good funny laugh-out-loud ideas, btw. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 04:24, 28 December 2010 (CET)

As the author of Bloomin' Faeries! and someone who's never read a book of Terry Pratchett, I'm very flattered by the reference and comparison, but I'm also compelled to ask where my material intersects with that of Pratchett. --[[User:jayceeknight|jayceeknight]]
:Having just had a quick shufti, I'm at a loss, too...maybe just the ''mention'' of fairies? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 02:09, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

What, ''never'' read Pratchett? I've just been moved to go back and re-read the full story arc of [http://www.example.com ''Bloomin' Faeries''] (always a pleasure, Jaycee) and look for those elements that put me in mind of TP... let's see. Faeries/Elves as prone to putting glamour and enchantment on people just because they can and for their own amusement; a subversion of the conventions of fantasy; capricious royalty, morally suspect wizards, thick but hearty Heroes, a magical people with a basic sense of humour.... the sort of stuff TP covers in the first half-dozen or so Discworld books. There are undertones of the Wyrmberg business in the interplay between the Princess Heather, her two Hero suitors and her brat-prince brother, althugh this is all completely coincidental. Although I agree Shakespeare uses similar referents such as Bottom the Ass, referring to the Prince's trusty war-mount which can speak English after magical intervention. And the bashful talking tree... (bringing us back to {{WS}} and {{LL}} again). But I agree there are no specific shout-outs in this cartoon that can be taken as homage elements to episodes in the Pratchett canon... there's also a lot less overt sex in the Discworld, too. Let's say a nicely done cartoon serial in similar vein and one which is well worth referencing in its own right? And read some Terry... not that you're stuck for ideas, by any means, but I think you'll like it! Mucho regards --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 23:47, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

And here's an idea: a Webcomics section of "Reading Suggestions" that points readers to some most excellent fantasy comic strips, especially the ones playing the genre for humour and laughs. I propose Jaycee's as the first, but with a caveat about the adult humour content. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 23:54, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

I think the idea of a Webcomics section is an excellent idea that wouldn't be to hard to set up; the only problem I see in it is that there are many webcomics that have mature themes in them; should all comics be allowed or should there be limits? Either way some ground rules would have made on what should be allowed and how it should be identifed--[[User:Zdm|Zdm]] 00:09, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

==Yrsa==
{{wp|Yrsa Sigurðardóttir|Sigurða'''r'''dóttir}}, apparently. I suspect an Icelandic writer (and civil engineer!) can read the original Pratchetts. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 01:31, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

Joseph Wambaughs recently released "Hollywood Hills" contain a character named Raleigh S. Dibble, a caterer (whose food actually is edible), having business ventures that tends to become Wahoona shaped, but really isn't a criminal. Somewhat rodent-looking, too. Combine with a host of LAPD officers who would not be out of place in the AMCW (except for the leadership of the AMCW being somewhat better), and you see a clearcut case of a literary morphogenetic field.

== ==
I'm not sure about the Cabinet of Curiousities-these can be found in many museums. A strong coffee isn't particularly notable on the Discworld is it? The Igors is probably the most Discworld, and even then it ''could'' come from Hammer Horror. [[User:Marmosetpower|Marmosetpower]] 20:17, 8 November 2011 (CET)

==Big Bang==
Coming from East Texas, Sheldon Cooper's scientific achievements pale in comparison to his learning to ''talk'' like that. (East Texas also gave us Janis Joplin and other less-fundamentalist icons.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:51, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

==Sharpe==
* I did some checking, and Harper's 7-barreller apparently first appears in ''Sharpe's Company'' published in 1982. I therefore consider it unlikely that it's a reference to the Piecemaker, which makes its first appearance in ''Men at Arms'', published eleven years later. [[User:Daibhid C|Daibhid C]] ([[User talk:Daibhid C|talk]]) 11:37, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Reverse Annotations

2014-10-24T11:32:47Z

Daibhid C: /* Doctor Who Magazine */

== "Pani Poni Dash" ==
*In the anime "Pani Poni Dash", episode 15, a class is stuck on a bus dangling off the edge of a cliff. Himeko, a rather hyperactive girl, deludes herself into thinking that her "aura" is what's keeping the bus from falling, hence she's supporting the whole shebang. To illustrate this, she hallucinates a brief vision of the Discworld with her head superimposed on Great A'Tuin.

== "Family Guy" ==
*In {{MP}}, during the fight scene with the [[Ginger]]-monster, [[Victor Tugelbend]] resorts to a mean trick to get the dogs [[Gaspode]] and [[Laddie]] to leave the wrecked cinema. (Corgi paperback edition, p288) He throws a stick and calls "Fetch!" (Gaspode has enough self-control to shout "You bastard!" as his doggie instinct overtakes his rational mind and he chases the stick)

In the TV animated series "Family Guy", by far the most capable, intelligent, and mature member of the Griffin family is the family dog Brian, an anthropomorphic canine who is clearly an American Roundworld cousin of Gaspode, (but cleaner)

In an episode where Brian ends up improbably married to Lois Griffin after the (presumed) death of ignoramus paterfamilias Peter, Brian becomes suspicious of her absences and suspects she is having an affair. Uncomfortably aware his probing questions are getting too close to the truth, Lois resorts to throwing a ball. Brian, unable to help his fundamental doggy instinct, chases it, but pauses to call her a bitch...

Interestingly enough, a recurring character in ''Family Guy'' is Death, who is a skeletal figure in a black robe toting a scythe, but who lacks the essential gravitas of Discworld's [[Death]]... well, all lesser Deaths are subjects of [[Azrael]]...

({{MP}} - published 1990; ''Family Guy'' first aired on TV in 1999)

There is also an episode of ''Family Guy'', screened here by BBC3 on 9/12/12, where for reasons too intricate to summarise, an evil robotic version of Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana grabs the evil monkey living in Chris Griffin's closet, and climbs up a very high building with her simian hostage. ''Somebody'' on FG's production staff must read Pratchett....

In an episode of the related animation ''American Dad'', aired in Britain during September 2010, ultra-conservative American father of the title, CIA agent Stan Smith, is pursuing his dream of disposing of daughter Hayley's hippie slacker boyfriend. In a conversation that arouses Stan's sympathies, the boyfriend, who is underweight and totes a scraggly beard, discloses that "my mother ran away before I was born" - exactly Rincewind's description of his parentage... Hayley's slacker BF also role-plays a not-very-good wizard on an Internet "World of Warcraft" fantasy game.

Also in ''American Dad'', one episode features a rather Stepford-Wife-ish cooking and baking contest, in which Mother Francine and daughter Hayley are deadly rivals for the prize and acclaim. Both are beaten at the last gasp by a new contender - the rather fey alien Roger, who has taken on a Stepford disguise. The name Roger adopts for his victory as Langley Falls' greatest cook? ''Emmylou Sugarbean''.

== "Life on Mars" ==
*{{NW}} - centres on a honest copper thrown back thirty years in time to right a wrong and enable him to return to his present, exactly as he left it. The honest copper is confronted with the slightly primitive policing techniques of the past, and introduces elements of sensitive modern policing on a force not quite mentally equipped to accept it.

The BBC TV series '''Life On Mars''', by stunning coincidence, centres on a honest copper thrown back thirty years in time to right a wrong and enable him to return to his present, exactly as he left it. The honest copper is confronted with the slightly primitive policing techniques of the past, and introduces elements of sensitive modern policing on a force not quite mentally equipped to accept it.

It would appear that the book was released slightly before the TV series was conceived, but there may not be much in it...

== Lindsey Davis' "Falco" ==
*The Roman detective novel ''Saturnalia'', by self-confessed Pratchett-admirer Lindsey Davis, includes in its 26th chapter three witches who would have been at home in [[Lancre]]: they dress up to ensure they look like witches, don't suffer fools gladly and complain about the problems of modern witchcraft; the third witch, Daphne, is in fact absent because - [[Nanny Ogg]]-like - she has to look after her grandchildren.

''Saturnalia'' feels like a rich seam of Pratchett references! For instance, the character of Zosmio, who flaps around the cemetery in a white sheet pretending to be dead, and "haunting" the place - who else is this but Duke [[Leonal Felmet]] in his final insanity?

And the Vigiles of the fourth precinct have a lot in common with the Night Watch of the early [[Samuel Vimes]] era. At their Saturnalia party, one watchman dresses up as "a six-foot tall carrot", for instance.

The policing set-up in Vespasian's Rome places the Royal Palace under the control of the Praetorian Guard, a bunch of haughty bullies puffed up with their own self-importance who enjoy throwing their weight around, especially against ethnic minorities and a despised lowly group such as the Vigiles (Night Watch). Compare this to the Palace Guard, two of whose finest want to beat up Vimes just for annoying them (in {{G!G!}}), and [[Quirke|Mayonnaise Quirke]]'s Day Watch with its speciesist attitude to trolls and dwarfs.

The Vigile (Watchman) Fusculus is described in terms reiniscent of a rather more intelligent, slightly quirkier, version of [[Fred Colon]]. ("Fusculus" may come from a Latin root meaning ''"to confuse, to bamboozle"'' - confirmation anyone?) No sighting of an Ancient Roman Nobby Nobbs yet, but I haven't finished reading the book!

"Fishing from the same stream", as Terry phrases it, Lindsey Davis also has the Lord of Misrule at Saturnalia be "randomly" selected by getting the fateful bean in their lunch. Compare this to those earthly avatars of the [[Hogfather]], who were "randomly" selected for sacrifice by getting the bean. And the Roman Saturnalia and Discworld's Hogswatch are, of course, aspects of the same universal midwinter festival.

The resemblance, especially nasally, between Rome and the river Tiber to Ankh-Morpork and the Ankh, is also apparent from the books. Falco is a product of, and still lives in, the Shades of ancient Rome. His landlord is a CMOT Dibbler type who has tried various failed shortcuts to getting seriously rich.

At this point in Roman history, it should be noted, as L.D. explicitly does, that the lowly-born Emperor Vespasian (the first of the Flavian line) is very explicitly '''''not''''' a Patrician. As viewed through the eyes of central character, plebian-born Marcus Didius Falco (who is suspiciously Vimes-like in terms of cynicism), it was the patrician (ie, most illustrious, well-bred, and noble) Claudian line of Caesars who got Rome into the mess it is in today. Such Divine Caesars as Caligula and Nero were, in Falco's eyes, so well-bred as to be inbred. Note L.D.'s use of the word "patrician" in its correct Roman context, as well as the reminder about the extremely insane Caesars who did things such as make a favourite horse into a Senator. (And the [[Ankh-Morpork]] parellel is Lord [[Snapcase]], possibly?)

Oh, and the most blatantly obvious parallel between Lindsey Davis and Terry Pratchett is so obvious I missed it: the central character, Marcus Didius Falco, the private investigator, is, socially speaking, a product of the Roman gutter who from time to time goes on ruinous drinking benders. He is a born detective, part of whose pay goes on a sort of "widow's pension" for his dead brother's girlfriend and child. The love of his life (Helena Justina) is a woman from a vastly higher social class - in fact, the nobility - who is independently wealthy and can afford to flout convention. Although there is no record of Helena obsessively breeding any sort of animal, this spookily parallels Sam Vimes and Lady Sybil. (Although for a while Falco had the title of Keeper of the Royal Geese, as a personal gift from Vespasian, their only family pet is an ill-behaved scruffy mutt called Nux).

The rather spiky relationship between Falco and Emperor Vespasian also has echoes of Vimes and Vetinari. Vespasian insists on the minimum of ceremony and puts up with near-insolence from his Imperial Investigator, perhaps because he knows Falco gets results, or perhaps because he likes having somebody around who doesn't refrain from speaking his mind. (Falco is no friend of the Imperial system: he makes no secret, even to the Emperor, that he prefers the more egalitarian set-up of Republican Rome to that of the Empire. Just as Vimes reluctantly serves Vetinari while wanting to overthrow him and replace him with something better, Falco works for Vespasian and gives him grudging respect, whilst pining for something better that doesn't include Emperors or Kings. In both cases, Helena Justina and Sybil Ramkin, as women from noble families who have faithfully served and advised rulers past and present, are on hand to soothe over any little misunderstandings.)

And L.D., in her author's notes, also talks about the concept of ''tribute plagiarism'', of assimilating and paying homage to the best ideas of another author by recycling them in your own work, putting your own mark on them, and seeing if anyone notices.

(March 2009) - '''''Alexandria''''', Lindsey Davis's latest release in the Falco series, sees the husband-and-wife detective team, Marcus Didius and Helena Justina, travel to North Africa, ostensibly on a family holiday to Egypt.

However, the most prestigious University in the Roman Empire is simultaneously beset with murder among the Faculty. Is it a case of younger, ambitious and status-hungry academics ensuring their promotion by terminally accelerating the retirement plans of the men above them? As an accredited Imperial Investigator with the personal trust of the Emperor, Falco is roped in to investigate. Compare this to Vimes having the trust of Vetinari and being sent out of the City on missions combining policing expertise and a unique diplomatic skill, sometimes requiring the intervention of his socially better-bred wife.

We meet a very aesthetic art expert (Sir Reynold?), two local policemen with a suspiciously Nobbs and Colon aura about them, and members of the Alexandria University faculty who are as quarrelsome, fractious, and incapable of grasping reality, as any in a Faculty we know. Some of whom manifest very familiar vibes - the Head of Philosophy is a big harrumphing bear of a man whose mind runs on fairly rigid rails, for instance, and who isn't especially interested in other people's ideas unless they chime with his.

There is also an issue concerning the Librarian. And a bright young postgraduate with deep ideas. And priests of a syncretic religion with big ideas. Who have access to Sodek the sacred crocodile as an instrument of applied theology.

And all this in the first quarter of the book...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 23:05, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The latest book in the Falco series is called '''''Nemesis'''''.

Spotting LD's tribute plagiarisms is beginning to be fun. But in this latest episode, Falco is forced to go to a spirit medium for help (and he is left slightly spooked where she gets one thing right that she could not possibly have guessed.)

The medium is small, dressed in faded vermilion red, and wears garlands and an item of headwear consisting partly of feathers but mainly reproductions of fruit. She is irascible of temper and insists on making nettle tea before she goes to work, sending pungent vegetable odours drifting across the seance room. Falco, cynical and streetwise, gives credit to her for knowing how people work and putting on an appropriate show. But this lady evokes [[Madame Tracy]] whilst looking like Mrs [[Evadne Cake]] and gives Falco that one wavering moment of wondering if there's something in it after all...

Falco is also charged with bringing to book a ghastly criminal family, composed of a hideous overbearing monster of a mother and the thuggish sons she has alternately doted on and terrified into submission. The Claudii family come over as a Roman echo of Ma Lilywhite and her sons (although one of them isn't above hitting girls).

--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 12:49, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

== Cory Doctorow ==
From historical whodunnit to science fiction. Cory Doctorow's novel '''''Makers''''' is about a very close future, where a new wave of computer innovation backed by a co-operative capitalism akin to anarchism, brings about something like the replicators of ''Stargate-SG1''. On page 110, Geoff, who defines himself as a "chemist", remarks on drinking some ''really good'' (if chemically enhanced) coffee ([[Splot]]?). Quote: ''"Marthter, the creathathure awaketh!"'' he said, in high Igor.

Later on in "Makers", the two computer inventors, Lester and Perry, create a Cabinet of Curiosities all of their very own.

== Alan Gordon ==
Alan Gordon (born 1959) is the author of several mysteries, the first of which is based on the characters from William Shakespeare's '''''Twelfth Night'''''. He writes about jesters as advisers to the king, who actually make up a super-secret spy ring that try to keep peace and control the leaders of different countries. The Fool's Guild of these novels is portrayed as a mockery to the church, and they refer to Jesus Christ as "Their Saviour, the First Fool".

Alan Gordon began writing his novels about fools and jesters as a supra-national spy ring in 1999. This is exactly the same idea TP came up with a year or two earlier to explain the survival of the Fools' and Clowns' Guild into the modern era - that the Guild's graduates go everywhere, end up in some very high places, and periodically report back to Doctor Whiteface. Making him both very rich and very powerful.

Is it possible AG got the basic idea for the seven Fools' Guild novels from Pratchett? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Gordon_(author)]

== Douglas Adams' ''Shada'' ==
In the long-awaited novelisation of Adams' ''Dr Who'' script, the doctor (his Tom Baker incarnation) is in the captivity of the big Bad, who is demanding he read out a Galiffreyan book of lore containing the innermost secrets of the Time Lords. The Doctor, who genuinely cannot read the heiroglyphics of Ancient Gallifrey, duly does the best he can:-

''"Squiggle, squiggle." said the Dosctor, "Squiggle, squiggle, sort of an eye, I think, squiggle, squiggle..." I'm paraphrasing wildly, of course... squiggle, squiggle... ssshsh, this is a good bit! Squiggle squiggle wavy line, squggle squiggle..." ''

Not assuming Douglas Adams wrote this in the original 1976 script, but his ghost-writer Gareth Roberts might be inserting a homage to Pteppic in {{P}} here?

== Yrsa Sigurdasdottir ==
Icelandic crime fiction writer Yrsa Sigurdasdottir's debut novel '''''Last rituals''''' deals with scurrilous goings-on among postgraduate students at the University of Iceland, who have taken their PhD in Icelandic ritual magic seriously, to the point of practically testing whether the old magic rituals and curses still work in the modern world. She passes on the snippet that a legendary founder of the academic tradition in Iceland was a mediaeval wizard, whose statue still takes pride of place in front of the main University building where everyone can see it. As well as this, there is a visit to a museum of native Icelandic magic, where a minor plot-point concerns whether or not a Viking artefact, a large stone collection bowl used to contain the blood of a sacrifical victim, is the real thing, or if it has been surreptitiously switched with a modern replica and the original stolen for some nefarious purpose... has Terry been translated into Icelandic, or are these two points part of the universal pool of plot-points drawn on for {{T!}} and the general layout of Unseen University? --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 00:34, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

==John Moore==
* In John Moore's '''''Slay and Rescue''''' there's a mention of a shoemaker who made luxury (and impossible to wear) shoes before quitting and becoming the chief [[quisition|torturer]] for king [[Brutha|Bruno]] of [[Omnia]]. (The Czech translation made the reference to {{SG}} even more explicit, translating "chief torturer" as "chief inquisitor".)
* The book '''''Bad Prince Charlie''''' by John Moore has a footnote where the author says that it's a good idea to use footnotes because Terry Pratchett uses them and people like his books, after all.
* In '''''Unhandsome Prince''''' there exists a [[Thieves' Guild]] and an [[Assassins' Guild]]. (Anybody stupid enough to enter one of the buildings to join the guild or to make use of their services will find out that they are fake - a set up by the royal guards.)

== Dragon Magazine ==
* In Issue 293, an article on minor deities appears, titled "Small Gods." To further drive home the reference, the first illustration is of a not particularly bright looking man stranded in the desert being approached by a robed figure with the head of a bull.
* In Issue 271, in the comic strip "What's New? With Phil and Dixie", a poster on a wall reads "Visit beautiful Ankh-Morpork".

== Scrapheap Challenge ==
* On the second episode of the engineering game show ''Scrapheap Challenge'' (called ''Junkyard Wars'' in the US), the Orange team named their bodged-together Power Puller "The Great A'Tuin". It lost the challenge, winning only one out of three rounds of tug-of-war against the Yellow team's "Eat My Shorts".

==Charles Stross==
* In Charles Stross's near-future technothriller ''''''Halting State''''', a character enlivens a bus ride through Edinburgh by using Augumented Reality to turn it into Ankh-Morpork.

==Ben Aaronovitch==
* Ben Aaronovitch's ''New Doctor Who Adventures'' novel ''The Also People'' features, at various points, reference to a suspicious yellow dip at parties that no-one ever eats, the Doctor having octagons in his eyes to see things others can't, a cocktail called a Double Entendre, a market trader called C!Mot and a chapter headed "A Better Class of Recurring Dream".
* Aaronovitch has stated on his blog that part of the inspiration for his ''Rivers of London'' urban fantasy series was a throwaway line in ''[[The Science of Discworld]]'' that if there were rules of magic in our world, Newton would have discovered them.

==Girl Genius==
* In one episode of the "gaslight fantasy" webcomic "Girl Genius" by Phil and Katja Foglio, the "clanks" (steampunk robots) attacking the Baron include large wooden chests with sharp teeth and mechanical legs. In case anyone thinks it might be a coincidence, the lead chest has the name of its owner written on it: "The Amazing Pratchett".

==Unravelling the Mystery==
It all started with a Big Bang. (Bang!) Think {{SOD1}}. The Wizards of Unseen University create a pocket universe, made real and tangible inside a glass-like protective sphere allowing full three-dimensional views. The wizard tasked with making sense of it all is relatively young, rather geeky, wears glasses, and affects something not unlike a shapeless grey-green parka. Meanwhile at Caltech University in Pasadena, CA, there is a youngish research physicist who is geeky in appearance, wears glasses and a shapeless grey-green parka. Knowing about holograms, he darkens the room and projects a series of hologrammatic pictures of Earth and the solar system and the Milky Way, into the air to enchant his girlfriend. This looks a lot like the enduring image of {{SOD1}} - a world-globe hanging in the air, supported nowhere. Especially when he speculates about whether the Universe and all in it might have been created to provide information for a remote intelligence, for its own ends...See ''The Hologram Excitation'' episode of American geek-science sitcom ''The Big Bang Theory''. TBBT depends on fantasy, comic-book, sci-fi and geek cultural references to power the scripts. This would appear to be the first and so far only Discworld reference, as yet. {{SOD1}} co-authors [[Jack Cohen]] and [[Ian Stewart]] are both well-known in American academic circles and hold American academic positions; both have written for the academic trade press. This could be a case where Cohen and Stewart are more famous, to a very specialised readership, than Terry?

In {{SOD3}}, Jack Cohen ruefully describes a bad experience he had whilst working as an academic and going on lecture tours across the USA. He was heckled by a tough audience to whom he was trying to explain why evolution is the accepted scientific truth and Creationism doesn't have a leg to stand on. This was in East Texas, a part of the world where evolutionists tend to be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail, if not burnt at the stake as agents of Satan. In ''TBBT'', lead character Sheldon Cooper is from East Texas and views having moved to California as intellectual liberation. His greatest fear is losing scientific credibility and being forced to return home to teach High School science. specifically, having to teach Evolution to Creationists. (His mother is a true believer in Christianity and a Creationist.)

There is also a tantalising scene where the guys have dressed up as ''Planet of the Apes'' characters and Raj ruefully says he'd have preferred to wear the orang-utan costume but the others voted him down... a bit tenuous, but you wonder if another reference was intended here.

==Criminal Minds==
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." was quoted at the start of season 4 episode 20 "Conflicted" by Reid in a much more sinister way than TP used it and referring to good and evil, unlike the original, unsurprising concidering that Criminal Minds deals with serial killers as a matter of coarse. TP was acknowledged as the originator of the saying.

==Welcome to his Nightmare==
Outrageous singer and performance artiste Alice Cooper's 2011 album '''''Welcome 2 My Nightmare''''' contains a song called ''The Congregation''. This line made me stop and wonder.

''"And here in the fiery pit of boiling death, the lawyers, pimps, and mimes."''

An intelligent and well-read chap of a Gothic inclination cannot have failed to have stumbled on the works of Terry....
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==Sharpe==
* In Bernard Cornwell's ''Sharpe'' tales, about a proto-commando in the Napoleonic Wars, the huge and hulking Sergeant Harper totes a [[Piecemaker|fearsome seven-barreled musket]], originally designed for close-quarter naval use with the express intention of bringing down a battleship's mainmast and rigging. This failed as a naval weapon because sailors tend to be smaller and wirier men whose talents lie elsewhere. Besides, to fire a weapon like this from the deck of a rolling and pitching ship could be... something of an own goal. But the huge Harper, who has a suspiciously Detritus-to-Vimes relationship with Captain Sharpe, takes to it like a troll to a siege weapon. Like Carrot and Detritus, the enduring friendship and mutual respect of the two men began with a fist-fight, which, against the odds, was won by Sharpe. Sharpe is a heavy-drinking outsider who rose to officer's rank from the Regency London equivalent of the Shades (the Rookery) and made his way up from the ranks, against the odds. Lord Wellington is portrayed as a devious Vetinari-like figure (who eventually entered politics and was a most effective Prime Minister). Sharpe also exposes political corruption by his social betters and both annoys them - and gets their respect. The Rust-like disposition of many British senior officers is explicitly dwelt upon. Sharpe eventually marries to a far higher social level and his wife has enviable Sybil Ramkin-like characteristics. (Memo: Cornwell may be a Discworld fan?)

==Doctor Who Magazine==
* In the DWM comic strip "Fire and Brimstone", the Eighth Doctor's companion Izzy describes the book she's reading as featuring "This mad city called Ankh-Morpork, and an old hag called Granny Weatherwax, and the whole world, right, is a disc and sits on the back of a turtle." She asks the Doctor why they can't visit somewhere like the Discworld and he replies "Izzy, I've ''been''. It was flat."